90125 vs Discipline - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Artik wrote:

Is that even a question? It's pop/pop rock vs new wave/prog, of course KC wins. King Crimson set the bar for others prog bands in the 80s and showed that it was possible to stay relevant and creative and not sell out shamesly. Even if it was inspired by others (Talking Heads) it wasn't inspired by Top Ten garbage. I'm sorry for being harsh on Yes here, but as I love this band, their 90125, Big Generator and Union era is unbearable to me. Thankfuly they managed to recover from this severe pop disease later.

I wouldn't say KC set the bar at all. Many prog bands were doing these crossover prog albums. Gentle Giant was ahead of the game with its last three albums and Yes even beat them to the punch with Drama. The 70s was chock full of progressive pop. Sparks for example was doing this stuff 10 years before KC or anybody really. Not sure why this album gets so many kudos. I guess it's because it's popular.

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Lewian wrote:

siLLy puPPy wrote:

Sparks for example was doing this stuff 10 years before KC or anybody really.

Except that "this stuff" was totally different.

Different in what way? Prog, pop and ethnic influences dancing in the same ballroom was hardly revolutionary. I've listened to Discipline for years. I actually like it less every time i hear it because the deeper i dig into many musical styles, i find it's all been done before. It was a great album for sure but to call it revolutionary in any way doesn't fly with me. It was a great adaptation for the times and managed to fit in without totally selling out like Genesis, THAT's for sure! Personally i just prefer 90125.

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^ I love Roxy Music! They were quite innovative as well however Sparks which started out as Halfnelson released its first album in 1971 while Roxy didn't unleash its debut until the next year. Still, both were very much ahead of their time and all the new wave 80s including KC's Discipline owes a lot to those pioneers.

As far as Discipline vs 90125. No need to compare. I much prefer Red and Relayer any day Wink

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90125 by 1.5 star. Discipline is one of the most overrated albums in the entire prog catalog.

Discipline for me.

I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!

Yes - 90125

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.

90125 gets the nod.

Couldn't get into Discipline.

Welcome to the middle of the film.

siLLy puPPy wrote:

Artik wrote:

Is that even a question? It's pop/pop rock vs new wave/prog, of course KC wins. King Crimson set the bar for others prog bands in the 80s and showed that it was possible to stay relevant and creative and not sell out shamesly. Even if it was inspired by others (Talking Heads) it wasn't inspired by Top Ten garbage. I'm sorry for being harsh on Yes here, but as I love this band, their 90125, Big Generator and Union era is unbearable to me. Thankfuly they managed to recover from this severe pop disease later.

I wouldn't say KC set the bar at all. Many prog bands were doing these crossover prog albums. Gentle Giant was ahead of the game with its last three albums and Yes even beat them to the punch with Drama. The 70s was chock full of progressive pop. Sparks for example was doing this stuff 10 years before KC or anybody really. Not sure why this album gets so many kudos. I guess it's because it's popular.

Drama is great, but less revolutionary for the previous band style than Discipline in the context of KC discography. 90125 was kinda revolutionary in terms of previous style, but drowned in pop (ouch!) so it was de-evolution. It was contrary to the very idea of prog which main goal was to broaden the boundries of rock by aiming for unusual and mixing rock with unexpected elements while avoiding emulating pop shemes. Gentle Giant "Missing piece" wasn't ahead of anything, it was a downfall of their style but still much in the same vein (and still quite good). Their last two were different, but not in a good way. Giant for a day has it's moments but suffers from the same disease as 90125 - pop oriented de-evolution. Civilian being not as poppy but far less interesting than Discipline. So compared with Genesis, Giant, Yes of the same era KC with Discipline set the bar way above their then rather pedestrian contemporaries aiming for sellout.

siLLy puPPy wrote:

Lewian wrote:

siLLy puPPy wrote:

Sparks for example was doing this stuff 10 years before KC or anybody really.

Except that "this stuff" was totally different.

Different in what way? Prog, pop and ethnic influences dancing in the same ballroom was hardly revolutionary. I've listened to Discipline for years. I actually like it less every time i hear it because the deeper i dig into many musical styles, i find it's all been done before. It was a great album for sure but to call it revolutionary in any way doesn't fly with me. It was a great adaptation for the times and managed to fit in without totally selling out like Genesis, THAT's for sure! Personally i just prefer 90125.

They say "there's nothing new under the sun" for a reason. 99.9% of innovation is putting together stuff that already exists in new ways. Of course you can say Sparks and Roxy Music combined some elements in a new way as Discipline did, and even element X and Y occur in those as well as in Discipline. But that's very formalist, and as long as their stuff sounds totally different (taking the overall impression, composition, production, instrumental performances,...), that seems quite irrelevant to me regarding the originality of Discipline.

Discipline, of course. But 90125 has its charms.

Poll Question: Which album do you prefer?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
King Crimson - Discipline	46	[62.16%]
Yes - 90125	24	[32.43%]
Both equally	3	[4.05%]
Neither	1	[1.35%]
You can not vote in this poll