Long-running bands ambitious adventurous debuts |
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TCat
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Ambrosia's debut album was quite ambitious, especially considering they could never follow it up with anything even close to it. It's still one of my favorite albums. But they did have help from Alan Parsons before he helped out with Dark Side of the Moon.
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Second Thoughts was a dreadful misfire. Difficult situation when you lose your main guitarist. However that's additional argument why the band should have resisted the temptation to record their debut album again.
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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"The Light" by Spock's Beard. Bands were doing all sorts of adventurous things in the earlier 70's. However not much was happening in 1995 when Spock's Band recorded the album. Epic tracks in the 90's wasn't the norm. They didn't just imitate what prog bands were doing in the 70's. They added an original touch to bands like Gentle Giant and Kansas.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Yes and no. Without Manzanera at the helm, and flying their flag, Split Enz may never have made it. And while the re-recorded songs from Mental Notes are inferior in every way to the originals, there are still some neat songs on there, that I’m glad made it onto an album. As for lead guitar, Phil Judd played it before Wally Wilkinson joined the band, and after they fired him, Judd took the role back on. So I don’t think not having Wilkinson onboard was a great loss. It’s hard to know what might have happened if Manzanera hadn’t somewhat “adopted” Split Enz. They likely wouldn’t have gone to the UK when they did, and because of all the changes that wrought within the band, perhaps Phil Judd might not have felt so much pressure, and might not have left the band when he did. If he didn’t leave, Neil Finn wouldn’t have joined when he did, and the whole future of Split Enz would be very different at that point. It’s too much a game of “what ifs” for me to wonder what might have happened if Second Thoughts wasn’t released (as Mental Notes) effectively debuting the band internationally. And, while I’m not a fan of the re-recorded songs from (the original) Mental Notes, I do still enjoy much of Second Thoughts. It’s far from being my least-favourite Split Enz album. You call Second Thoughts a misfire, and, similarly, I have heard many people describe it as a backwards step. For me, it’s more of a sideways step. It’s undeniably a very important album in the history of the band, and very much changed the course the band was taking (hence my thinking of it a sideways step), but if it’s a misfire, it definitely didn’t blow up band’s faces…. |
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iluvmarillion
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Do you know why Wally Wilkinson was fired? Certainly a better electric guitarist than Phil Judd. Thanks for the additional information.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Wally was originally brought into the band because Phil Judd was aware that he wasn’t as proficient on electric guitar. From what I’ve read in the past (and I have no idea of its veracity), Wally was fired because the rest of the band unanimously found his guitar playing “less than satisfactory”, while in the meantime, Phil had been working on his electric guitar playing, and was more confident. I’m definitely not of the opinion that Wally’s playing was “less than satisfactory”, and wonder if it was merely the new boy not gelling so well with the rest of the band. Regardless, he was fired, and it probably wasn’t a great decision by the band. But again, if he hadn’t been fired, there would have been no place for Neil Finn, once Phil left the band, so…… 🤷🏻♂️ |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26171 |
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good call on Spock's Beard not just 'copying'. I remember being very underwhelmed though when I first heard them on radio and it felt too 'safe' and not complex enough , but years later I understand they were going somewhere new. maybe Echolyn's debut may also fall into the same category , I say 'maybe' because I've not heard it! |
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Rick1
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 14 2020 Location: Loughborough UK Status: Offline Points: 2792 |
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In general, I think most debut albums - if the band has some artistic control - tend to be good 'statements of intent' almost by definition. The harder answer is to find the debuts that don't fit into this category - 'From Genesis to Revelation' is a more obvious one...
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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NEU’s selftitled debut is the one I first thought of. It’s not that often albums are made that sound like nothing else before it. On the surface of things it actually feels simple almost akin to the naive. The music sounds like it’s being poured out of a bucket. Streaming with a naturalness to it that somewhat deceives the underlying stuff happening in the music. I think many new to this music struggle with this element of the music...but once you pass that you realise how much is happening all around it.
Franco Battiato’s Fetus also feels like a huge mouthfull for a debut. The cover art alone screams ‘different’...certainly in a Catholic country like Italy. Edited by Guldbamsen - June 18 2021 at 02:47 |
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Hiram
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Good call on Neu! and a great description of their music. I thought of mentioning them along with Can in my earlier post, but figured they might not be "long-running" enough.
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cstack3
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Yes yet! Not as brilliant or as innovative as ITCOTCK perhaps, but it helped launch one of the best prog phenomena in history. From Wikipedia:
"Beyond and Before" was written by Squire and Clive Bailey, former singer and guitarist in Mabel Greer's Toyshop, the rock band that was a precursor to Yes. The band would open their live shows with this tune, which features three-part harmonies. Years later, Banks was still unsure as to what the lyrics meant yet suggested they were "drug induced".[7] Squire described it as "one of those acid rock kind of songs" with its psychedelic lyrics.[11] "I See You" is a cover version of the original performed by American rock band the Byrds. Banks was disappointed with the version recorded for the album as he later recognized the mistakes on it. The instrumental section with the guitar solo was often stretched for several minutes when performed live, sometimes ending in Banks throwing his guitar in the air and banging it on stage.[11] "Yesterday and Today" was one of the tracks recorded at Trident Studios and features Bruford playing the vibraphone, despite telling the band he can play the instrument and Banks remembering the drummer getting nervous when it came to recording.[3][11] "Looking Around" remained one of Squire's favourite tracks on the album. When it came to recording it, the band had some difficulties with its pitching as they were unsure on what key the song was in.[12] "Harold Land" got its title from Bruford, who recalled someone asking out loud what the track should be called. "I remember somebody saying ... 'I want to write a song about a man called...' and I said, 'Harold Land' as I walked through the room".[3] The song is named after Harold Land, an American tenor saxophonist, yet the song's lyrics deal with the effects of war on the named character.[3] The album's second cover version is "Every Little Thing" by the Beatles. Squire did not realise how much he liked the band's version until he turned on the radio after performing at Madison Square Garden in New York City in 1984 and liked the instrumentation, failing to recognise it was the band's version being played until Anderson's voice was heard.[12] "Sweetness" was the first song that Anderson and Squire collaborated on following their initial meeting. It is featured in the comedy drama film Buffalo '66 (1998), the first film with Vincent Gallo as director. "Survival" was a song that had contributions from the whole band, but it was not worked on fully due to the limited time they had to finish the album. It later became bothersome for Bruford due to its ecology-inspired lyrics and "drippy" melody.[13] |
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Icarium
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Steve Hackett with Voyage of the Acolyte, combines both mystecisme, crispy instrumentation, lush atmosphere, pastoral flair, majestic, sensitive, boysterous ambition and a will to express freedom in a very pallatable and felt way. It feels like a true metamorphesis from Steve, releasing hes creative energy into a personal and collaborative sensation
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The Anders
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It will have to be Faust - Faust (1971) It's insane...
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Great list right here!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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Thanks. Yeah I guess long-running is somewhat of an open concept...but they did do material after the 70s Anders mentioned another one I didn’t immediately think of, which is odd, but the Faust debut is a wild first record. A bull in a China shop or perhaps more befitting; a severe case of peyote intoxication at the local music school for gifted kids. Oh almost forgot! How about something like the Electric Light Orchestra debut? I think it is fairly adventurous feeling considering the path they went down later on. That’s not to say that their more well-known albums and hits are poor. Just an observation. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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essexboyinwales
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 4499 |
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I have to nominate IQ, as The Last Human Gateway was certainly a statement of intent on TFTLA...
Also the King's X and Dream Theater debuts were and still are amazing😎 |
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