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SouthSideoftheSky View Drop Down
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Points: 1879 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthSideoftheSky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2021 at 09:54
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

About Sherwood, I'm more concerned about his contributions to writing and producing music, than his ability to play the bass.


Look at the credits for Heaven & Earth and it should be clear that they needed another writer in the band. Of course nobody wants the new Yes material to sound like a Billy Sherwood solo album, so let's hope that they've taken a democratic approach when composing the new songs.

ARW failed to deliver a new studio album, so bringing Anderson and Wakeman back together with Howe would probably not have helped to make new music anyway.



Sure Yes needs help to do new music, since the 90's they have been using old unused music in order to coplete their albums... many times those have been the best songs, and now that they didn't use any such old songs on Heaven and Earth, it was clear they needed the help. Yet Sherwood isn't the answer. His own albums and projects have not been so great (at least not at the level we would want to for a Yes album), and even when he collaborated with Yes on The Ladder and Open you Eyes it didn't go well (two of my least favourite Yes albums)... I don't know how much he might have written for those albums, if anything at all, but he must have had something to do with the sound, the production, or something, because the vocals had the same sterile quality that his own projects have... and that guess what? if I remember correctly, Sherwood was responsible for the vocals production on Heaven and Earth... and it's just when the vocals come in on that album that any promise a song might have goes plummeting down.


I had to look this up: according to the album's wikipedia page, Sherwood did some of the mixing and also engineering of the backing vocals (not the lead vocals, as I understand it).
 
Anyway, if you don't like The Ladder or other 90's Yes albums, then you're probably not going to like the upcoming one either. Personally, I do like 90's Yes, and I hope that The Quest will be a bit like The Ladder Big smile



Edited by SouthSideoftheSky - July 13 2021 at 09:55
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Originally posted by cemego cemego wrote:

Prediction:  This will sound like a bad Asia album (for production value/song writing), with a voice that sounds like a flat Mickey Mouse.  

SO against this.  Get a new band name at least.  This smacks of desperation.  Not having it.
You might be right but there's no need to kill it off before it's even released. I will give it a few listens and see.
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Prediction:  This will sound like a bad Asia album (for production value/song writing), with a voice that sounds like a flat Mickey Mouse.  

SO against this.  Get a new band name at least.  This smacks of desperation.  Not having it.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

KC has displayed a longevity that's quite impressive for sure.

I'm not saying horses need to go die because of chronological age.

I'm talking about a complete collapse of creativity which makes them irrelevant.

Even David Bowie cranked out one of his best albums before he went bye bye.

Nothing against the Yes members but indeed Howe has been stale for quite some time now :(

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. There are plenty of bands who are still making good music despite how long they've been around; hell, one of Rush's most acclaimed albums was their final one! The issue lies more in how stale the songwriting is, and a band can go stale after their 2nd record or their 20th record. Just depends on what band you're talking about, and unfortunately Yes has been putting out duds for a few decades now. I'm really not excited for this new album, seeing as Steve How and Alan White are the only members left from the band's heyday (Geoff Downes doesn't count since the only classic Yes album he was on is Drama) 
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KC has displayed a longevity that's quite impressive for sure.

I'm not saying horses need to go die because of chronological age.

I'm talking about a complete collapse of creativity which makes them irrelevant.

Even David Bowie cranked out one of his best albums before he went bye bye.

Nothing against the Yes members but indeed Howe has been stale for quite some time now :(

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Points: 6776 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 19:54
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Why is it so hard for old horses to go out to the pasture and die? Everything has an expiration date.

I'm with those who consider Magnification their last great effort.

Perhaps they need an album called Nursing Home Nightmares.

It might be more appropriate.

LOL Great commentary! 

Some old horses are doing fine - King Crimson continues to amaze IMHO.  I've seen them twice in their recent incarnation (Jakko on backing guitar & lead vocals), they were superb both times.  

This is Howe's band, and I don't think he's proven himself to be a great bandleader - GTR blew up, Asia teetered and fell, his own solo projects don't impress etc.  

At least Sherwood has some cred from being a former band member - I just don't think he's all that good. There are many talented bassists who could do at least as well, although Squire was a unique genius for his playing and signing.  

We'll see, I'm not expecting much.  
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Points: 14757 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 19:35
Why is it so hard for old horses to go out to the pasture and die? Everything has an expiration date.

I'm with those who consider Magnification their last great effort.

Perhaps they need an album called Nursing Home Nightmares.

It might be more appropriate.

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Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

About Sherwood, I'm more concerned about his contributions to writing and producing music, than his ability to play the bass.


Look at the credits for Heaven & Earth and it should be clear that they needed another writer in the band. Of course nobody wants the new Yes material to sound like a Billy Sherwood solo album, so let's hope that they've taken a democratic approach when composing the new songs.

ARW failed to deliver a new studio album, so bringing Anderson and Wakeman back together with Howe would probably not have helped to make new music anyway.



Sure Yes needs help to do new music, since the 90's they have been using old unused music in order to coplete their albums... many times those have been the best songs, and now that they didn't use any such old songs on Heaven and Earth, it was clear they needed the help. Yet Sherwood isn't the answer. His own albums and projects have not been so great (at least not at the level we would want to for a Yes album), and even when he collaborated with Yes on The Ladder and Open you Eyes it didn't go well (two of my least favourite Yes albums)... I don't know how much he might have written for those albums, if anything at all, but he must have had something to do with the sound, the production, or something, because the vocals had the same sterile quality that his own projects have... and that guess what? if I remember correctly, Sherwood was responsible for the vocals production on Heaven and Earth... and it's just when the vocals come in on that album that any promise a song might have goes plummeting down.
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

^ Unlike Styx, Yes just hasn't been able to do a passable job with modernizing their sound and I think it's also the members too. Yes sound very tired, low energy, and they just don't have the dexterity they once did. Contrast that with the modern lineup of Styx, even if that band isn't your cup of tea, they consistently bring a great show and for my money, a strong recent output too that sounds fresh rather than watered down imitations of their best work. For example: Dennis Deyoungs recent solo output.

I'm pumped to see Styx in September, will be my first time seeing them. The new album is rather good, both Tommy Shaw and JY have done a great job at keeping the music fresh and full of life as well they have brought on musicians who have filled the sound well, especially on drums. Hoping Chuck Panozzo makes it for this one....
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Originally posted by rik wilson rik wilson wrote:

I was wrong about Dean's death... misinformation,Sorry.

It's ok. I addressed that already though and said you probably got him mixed up with Storm Thorgerson (who did PF album covers among others). 
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I was wrong about Dean's death... misinformation,Sorry.
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

^ Unlike Styx, Yes just hasn't been able to do a passable job with modernizing their sound and I think it's also the members too. Yes sound very tired, low energy, and they just don't have the dexterity they once did. Contrast that with the modern lineup of Styx, even if that band isn't your cup of tea, they consistently bring a great show and for my money, a strong recent output too that sounds fresh rather than watered down imitations of their best work. For example: Dennis Deyoungs recent solo output.

I'm not that familiar with modern Styx but I know what you mean and I agree. Imo Yes started to drop the ball after Jon Anderson left in 2008 or whenever it was due to health issues. The album fly from here was pretty good but live I think there was much to be desired. So yes, some bands are able to hold it together longer than others and Yes aren't really one of those bands unfortunately. I think even Rush had some trouble with this(mostly with maintaining high quality albums later on and not so much live shows which were always great when I saw them) but at least they more or less went out with a bang. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 11 2021 at 11:41
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^ Unlike Styx, Yes just hasn't been able to do a passable job with modernizing their sound and I think it's also the members too. Yes sound very tired, low energy, and they just don't have the dexterity they once did. Contrast that with the modern lineup of Styx, even if that band isn't your cup of tea, they consistently bring a great show and for my money, a strong recent output too that sounds fresh rather than watered down imitations of their best work. For example: Dennis Deyoungs recent solo output.
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I think Yes are turning into a cover band of themselves, I would not go see them unless Jon and Rick were apart of the live show.


I understand that opinion. I often feel that way myself. I've actually only seen Yes twice since the departure of Jon Anderson and I was underwhelmed both times. The first time was with Benoit. At that concert Styx were the opening band and blew Yes off the stage. I'm not the only one who thought that either. The second time was with Jon Davison and while this show was a bit better it was still far from the best Yes show I have been to. It was just after Chris passed away and there was a special video tribute to him with "onward" playing(not the band playing it just the recorded music). Toto was the opening band this time and I feel they were probably better than Yes also. 

Anyway, at the time I had a hard time accepting this band as the band I knew and loved. It didn't really feel like Yes to me. Since then I accept them as Yes but I don't have much desire to see them again in this configuration. However, I don't think I feel as strongly as you do and so I'll never say never. If their next album is great and they have a good opening act I might reconsider. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 11 2021 at 11:38
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^I disagree. Sherwood might not be perfect but he's a good fit for the band and he's the most logical choice as a successor to Chris. I don't think say Geddy Lee would be a better replacement for Chris (not to mention not appropriate). In this case I think of Yes as sort of like a company where you want to fill the higher positions with people who are already associated with or working within the company. 


As for the  Jon and Rick comment well I guess in your opinion Yes should have called it quits after Heaven and Earth (if not sooner). 
Geddy I highly doubt would agree to assume Squire's role, sure he played with them at the RRHoF but that's not the same. I was not thinking Geddy Lee.......but I don't think Sherwood again, from a musical view, is that great, he's fine. Tony Levin would be able reproduce those monster bass licks. Logical only in that supposedly Chris wanted him in the band, they were friends.
We will see, maybe his playing will be better suited to the Yes sound today as I am sure Sherwood feels the pressure to perform like Squire.....See the issue is that Squire's sound was a huge, huge part of the Yes sound, it's what everyone talks about, it's the meat and bones of Yes. 
I don't care who you are, after 40+ years people want the classic Yes sound again, not Howe's sound which is much too trebly.

I'm hoping for a good record, but it won't be a Yes record.

I take it you haven't seen Yes with Sherwood in the band? His sound is similar to Squire's but he's not a copycat. Apparently many fans would be upset with Billy if he deliberately tried to sound like Squire. 

Howe has been with the band on and off since 1971. Would you rather have Trevor Rabin on guitar? 

As for the name, I don't care much about that. If people don't want to call it a Yes record that's fine with me. I think of ABWH as a Yes album but many disagree with that sometimes because of semantics. Over on the rush fans website there's a poll and so far I don't think anyone on there thinks of this new one as being "the real Yes." I personally think they have a right to call themselves Yes since this band is descended from the Squire band but I seem to be in the minority these days. Of course I would prefer if Jon was in the band(and Rick too for that matter) but we all know that's probably not going to happen (especially not with Rick).
I have not seen the band with Sherwood, don't think I would want to anymore. I've heard the studio music with Sherwood, and blame it on the mix or his playing but it's not beefy enough. The thick bass lines don't exist..........Last night I was spinning Fragile, Squire's playing is so amazing, clearly nobody can replace him but for sure, but there are bass players who have that thick, in your face bass licks.

I think Yes are turning into a cover band of themselves, I would not go see them unless Jon and Rick were apart of the live show.


Edited by Catcher10 - July 11 2021 at 09:01
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I can't imagine pre-ordering this album, unless they are only going to make like 2,000 or so but it's not being labeled Limited Release. I suspect it will be available readily, and the CD may end up being discounted by November. 

Jon Anderson is the Voice of Yes, always will be. With Squire gone now it makes Jon even more important if they wanted to continue as Yes....I just have a hard time calling this lineup Yes.

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I just hope the music has some inspiration, otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time with it.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


ARW failed to deliver a new studio album, so bringing Anderson and Wakeman back together with Howe would probably not have helped to make new music anyway.


how did they fail? They have not even tried... 

I hope they make a new record, just to annoy Howe... LOL


Well, they did two tours, and then it went quiet, and it's been a few years already now. I think it is safe to say that ARW is a thing of the past now, and no studio album resulted from that. Rabin has stated that they had three or four songs they were working on, but nobody was commited enough to do a full album.

But sure, me too I think that they should make a new record, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


ARW failed to deliver a new studio album, so bringing Anderson and Wakeman back together with Howe would probably not have helped to make new music anyway.


how did they fail? They have not even tried... 

I hope they make a new record, just to annoy Howe... LOL
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

About Sherwood, I'm more concerned about his contributions to writing and producing music, than his ability to play the bass.


Look at the credits for Heaven & Earth and it should be clear that they needed another writer in the band. Of course nobody wants the new Yes material to sound like a Billy Sherwood solo album, so let's hope that they've taken a democratic approach when composing the new songs.

ARW failed to deliver a new studio album, so bringing Anderson and Wakeman back together with Howe would probably not have helped to make new music anyway.
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