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Possibly Underrated Bassists?

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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 10:39
Fred Baker, played with Phil Miller, Pip Pyle, and others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 11:42
Ian Eyre - Curved Air 1970-71.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 12:03
John Lodge - Moody Blues
John Glasscock - Carmen/Jethro Tull

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 20:34
Randy George - The Neal Morse Band
Ray Shulman - Gentle Giant
Justin Chancellor - Tool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 21:06
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
a)  Mike Howlett, of Gong - check out his work on Gong's "You" LP 

b)  Lothar Meid, of Amon Duul II - great work on "Wolf City" and others, RIP! 

Hi,

Mike was always on the money and he could play and not worry about being up front or behind. He was really tight and careful and detailed and it showed many times. His work on some of the live albums is just as good, and we also did not see that he played with Pip, Pierre and then the S2S kid ... three very different drummers, and his playing still fit ... did we miss a beat? Never.

Lothar Meid is one of the great ones, that is ignored. His work on the MM Soundtrack is even better and shows some patience and touch that is not a part of most bass players ... it's about the silence and when not to play and still have a touch left to help propel the music forwards.

I seriously doubt that these two will get any credit. However there are/were several very nice choices, though I do not think they are necessarily the best. John G. Perry did an outstanding job with Caravan for one album and quit the bass it seems. Helmut Hattler is very special but I don't think that most folks here listen to Kraan, Guru Guru (in a couple of albums), and other bits here and there. The live Kraan albums are a good start for what this guy can do! 

I was thinking that Hugh Hopper should also be mentioned in this group.

Honorable mention ... thx to DE for putting John Glascock on this list. His work in Carmen was out of this world, and I'm not sure that he shined as much on JT albums as he did on Carmen, but maybe this was because he was not to be as close to the front as he was in Carmen.

Last addon. Dave Pegg of Fairport Convention and with Richard Thompson on a couple of live albums ... outstanding!


Edited by moshkito - November 13 2021 at 21:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 23:33
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
a)  Mike Howlett, of Gong - check out his work on Gong's "You" LP 

b)  Lothar Meid, of Amon Duul II - great work on "Wolf City" and others, RIP! 

Hi,

Mike was always on the money and he could play and not worry about being up front or behind. He was really tight and careful and detailed and it showed many times. His work on some of the live albums is just as good, and we also did not see that he played with Pip, Pierre and then the S2S kid ... three very different drummers, and his playing still fit ... did we miss a beat? Never.

Lothar Meid is one of the great ones, that is ignored. His work on the MM Soundtrack is even better and shows some patience and touch that is not a part of most bass players ... it's about the silence and when not to play and still have a touch left to help propel the music forwards.

I seriously doubt that these two will get any credit. However there are/were several very nice choices, though I do not think they are necessarily the best. John G. Perry did an outstanding job with Caravan for one album and quit the bass it seems. Helmut Hattler is very special but I don't think that most folks here listen to Kraan, Guru Guru (in a couple of albums), and other bits here and there. The live Kraan albums are a good start for what this guy can do! 

I was thinking that Hugh Hopper should also be mentioned in this group.

Honorable mention ... thx to DE for putting John Glascock on this list. His work in Carmen was out of this world, and I'm not sure that he shined as much on JT albums as he did on Carmen, but maybe this was because he was not to be as close to the front as he was in Carmen.

Last addon. Dave Pegg of Fairport Convention and with Richard Thompson on a couple of live albums ... outstanding!

Thanks, M, great comments!  Also, thanks for Dave Pegg and Rich Thompson!  You listen!  

I have a soft-spot for self-taught bassists....Bob Fripp taught Boz Burrell how to play the instrument, and when he joined Bad Company, he brought the sweet sound of fretless bass to the AM radio waves!  

Geoffrey Hammond-Hammond of Jethro Tull was another "project" bassist, taught to play by Ian Anderson.  His work on Tull's albums was sublime, and he was nearly as flamboyant onstage as Ian!!  Great thread!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 00:17
Underrated is maybe not the best terminology for this type of thing. Perhaps under appreciated or deserving more attention would be more apt? Anyways, let's not split hairs:

Lee Jackson (the Nice and Refugee)
Jim Rodford (Argent)
Jan Patrick Djivas (PFM)
Petr Vink (Finch)
Holger Czukay (Can)
Victor Wooten (Bela Fleck & the Flecktones)
Colin Hodgkinson (Back Door)

Non Prog
John Deacon (Queen)
Simon Gallup (the Cure)
Andy Rourke (the Smiths)
Les Pattinson (Echo & the Bunnymen)
Barry Adamson (Magazine, Bad Seeds and others)
Steve Hanley (the Fall)
Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath)
Steve Severin (Siouxsie & the Banshees)
Jean-Jacques Burnel (the Stranglers)
Fred Smith (Television)
Bruce Thomas (Elvis Costello & the Attractions)
Colin Moulding (XTC)
Bruce Moreland (Wall of Voodoo)






Edited by ExittheLemming - November 14 2021 at 00:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Guy Guden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 03:34
  Jon Camp of RENAISSANCE, perhaps?  listening to the live 1976 Nottingham show which is on the new Scheherazade remaster release.  strong work there.  he was an early guest on SPACE PIRATE RADIO as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 05:14


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 06:23
Steve Rodby. Ares Tavolazzi.

Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 08:05
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
I have a soft-spot for self-taught bassists....Bob Fripp taught Boz Burrell how to play the instrument, and when he joined Bad Company, he brought the sweet sound of fretless bass to the AM radio waves!  

Geoffrey Hammond-Hammond of Jethro Tull was another "project" bassist, taught to play by Ian Anderson.  His work on Tull's albums was sublime, and he was nearly as flamboyant onstage as Ian!!  Great thread!!

Hi,

I'm not sure it was that these folks were taught by Bob or Ian ... more than likely those folks wanted a very specific touch of the bass on this or that passage which helped make the piece more attractive. The majority of bass players are too concerned with beat and the drum, than they are with the whole of the music in front of them, so a bass player being asked/told to do this or that is not out of the question (see note below) ... it only means that one person is much more attuned to what their music is about, which another player would not be, thus being asked/told to do this bit or that bit this or that way, is far out. But the "talent" inherent in the player himself/herself is the issue, and Boz went on to do even better work on the fretless which is a credit to his ability. Geoffrey had become one of the folks that added the "personality" to JT, which Ian slowly took out and replaced as his own vision and take on things, although it seems that Geoffrey left on his own. John G was a very nice substitution, but I think he lost the ability to be out front and drive the music, since Ian was the driver not any other musician! That's when I fell out of JT ... I thought the touch of "band" was gone. Still fine and really well done, but not half as valuable or important as the older stuff that we all love and still talk about. But that's not to say that JT albums were not good at all from then on. 

I think there is a lot more to the bass playing than we think about ... the ones that stand out are not just about the beat and staying with the drummer ... when you hear Dave Pegg with Richard Thompson in those live albums (specially Live More/Less), you will find that Dave is magnificent at adding to the space that Richard intentionally leaves open when taking his time on the piece or notes! Those versions, of "Night Comes In" and "Calvary Cross" still are the best I have ever heard, and I think that Dave Pegg is the difference.

Note: One of the worst bass lessons of all, is when a teacher tells you that you are rhythm, and have to play with the drums ... meaning that you learn your instrument without learning to hear and pay better attention to the rest of the music. In rock music, I suppose the simplest thing to say is stay on the drummer, but by the time you get to jazz and more free form music, staying with the drummer, means you can't play!


Edited by moshkito - November 14 2021 at 19:47
... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 10:13
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...
I have a soft-spot for self-taught bassists....Bob Fripp taught Boz Burrell how to play the instrument, and when he joined Bad Company, he brought the sweet sound of fretless bass to the AM radio waves!  

Geoffrey Hammond-Hammond of Jethro Tull was another "project" bassist, taught to play by Ian Anderson.  His work on Tull's albums was sublime, and he was nearly as flamboyant onstage as Ian!!  Great thread!!

Geoffrey had become one of the folks that added the "personality" to JT, which Ian slowly took out and replaced as his own vision and take on things. As such Geoffrey ended up in the scrap heap.

Your historical revisionism is laughable and dead wrong. Jeffrey Hammond left Tull on his own accord to continue his painting career (which was always his first concern, and he has been quite successful as an artist). Jeffrey even tried to rejoin the band in the late 80s,  "but the bass player declared himself unable to play the rather difficult music of Jethro Tull and decided to give up."

Actually, Ian and Jeffrey were great old school friends, and Ian included Jeffrey in several songs: "A song for Jeffrey", Jeffrey Goes to Leicester Square" and "For Michael Collins, Jeffrey and Me".

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

John G was a very nice substitution, but he lost the ability to be out front and drive the music, since Ian was the driver not any other musician! That's when I fell out of JT ... I thought the touch of "band" was gone, and that Ian's version of things was not as strong or complete. Still fine and really well done, but not half as valuable or important as the older stuff that we all love and still talk about.

I would suggest that neither Jeffrey Hammond nor Glenn Cornick, both fine bass players, had the chops to play the bass lines found in Songs from the Wood or Heavy Horses. I would suggest further that the change you mention did not occur until after Stormwatch, when Ian fired John Evan, David (Dee) Palmer and Barriemore Barlow. They became more Ian-centric after that point and lost the magic.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I think there is a lot more to the bass playing than we think about ... the ones that stand out are not just about the beat and staying with the drummer ... when you hear Dave Pegg with Richard Thompson in those live albums (specially Live More/Less), you will find that Dave is magnificent at adding to the space that Richard intentionally leaves open when taking his time on the piece or notes! Those versions, of "Night Comes In" and "Calvary Cross" still are the best I have ever heard, and I think that Dave Pegg is the difference.

Dave Pegg joined Tull after Glascock's death and remained as Tull's bass player for over 15 years while continuing to make albums with Fairport Convention. In fact, one of the best concerts I've seen was in 1988 when Fairport backed up Tull on tour. Pegg was onstage for the entirety of both band's sets. He was fantastic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 12:27
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I would suggest that neither Jeffrey Hammond nor Glenn Cornick, both fine bass players, had the chops to play the bass lines found in Songs from the Wood or Heavy Horses. I would suggest further that the change you mention did not occur until after Stormwatch, when Ian fired John Evan, David (Dee) Palmer and Barriemore Barlow. They became more Ian-centric after that point and lost the magic.

I agree with both points re: bassists and post-Stormwatch Tull. I've long maintained the late John Glascock, who was taken far too soon, was the best bassist Tull ever had. I shudder when I wonder what all the Broadsword songs would sound like with his basslines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 12:32
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Underrated is maybe not the best terminology for this type of thing. Perhaps under appreciated or deserving more attention would be more apt? Anyways, let's not split hairs:

Lee Jackson (the Nice and Refugee)
Jim Rodford (Argent)
Jan Patrick Djivas (PFM)
Petr Vink (Finch)
Holger Czukay (Can)
Victor Wooten (Bela Fleck & the Flecktones)
Colin Hodgkinson (Back Door)

Non Prog
John Deacon (Queen)
Simon Gallup (the Cure)
Andy Rourke (the Smiths)
Les Pattinson (Echo & the Bunnymen)
Barry Adamson (Magazine, Bad Seeds and others)
Steve Hanley (the Fall)
Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath)
Steve Severin (Siouxsie & the Banshees)
Jean-Jacques Burnel (the Stranglers)
Fred Smith (Television)
Bruce Thomas (Elvis Costello & the Attractions)
Colin Moulding (XTC)
Bruce Moreland (Wall of Voodoo)

Some of these bassists will never get the attention they arguably deserve because some of these bands are no longer on the radar. You also have two who were in very high-profile bands that will never fall off the radar.

Vic Wooten is regarded by jazz/fusion aficionados as one of the best.

Nice to see a mention for Colin Hodgkinson! He's really good.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 12:54
John Ferrara from Consider the Source
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2021 at 19:50
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

...
Your historical revisionism is laughable and dead wrong. Jeffrey Hammond left Tull on his own accord to continue his painting career (which was always his first concern, and he has been quite successful as an artist).
...

Hi,

Updated and cleaned up per your comments. I'm not afraid to be wrong and definitely not stupid enough to know when to correct things. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will try to fix things the best I can, and did here!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2021 at 01:04
Originally posted by Cylli Kat (0fficial) Cylli Kat (0fficial) wrote:

Another player that comes to my mind is the late, great Charles Tumahai (Be Bop Deluxe).
In the pocket, or wandering 'round, that man could play!!!

that was a fantastic band generally. I've probably listened to them as much as anyone in the last 12 months or so. Bill Nelson is one of the great rock talents , just too good to be pigeon holed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2021 at 01:10
Steve Babb gets better with age and I'm not aware of a better current Rickenbacker player now that Chris Squire has left us. The latest Glass Hammer album is a real stonker by the way!
Another guy who surely deserves a mention is Gregory Spawton (Big Big Train). Maybe not that 'showy' but rock solid as it comes and he plays with NDV so he must be good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2021 at 23:01
Must-read interview with Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond of Jethro Tull!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2021 at 02:52
Scott Thunes is pretty handy!!
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