Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction
    Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:26
I suppose I should have noticed this before after 50 odd years of listening to this song, but I've just realised that one hand Peter is saying -

"Strike by night!
They are defenceless
They all need the sun to photosensitize their venom"

and next minute he says

"Still they're invincible
Still they're immune to all our herbicidal battering"

So which is it Peter? First you suggest we just have to show up at night with flamethrowers to wipe them out, then you're saying they're still invincible. I mean, they can't be both defenceless and invincible, so which is it Peter?
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18374
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:42
Context brother.

These are the ramblings of villagers who don't know 5hit about anything.
First, they state and then they maintain the assertion that the weeds are 'invincible', that doesn't change.
The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
And at the end of the day, the Hogweed emerges victorious.
So Peter was right on with his story.


Edited by JD - January 18 2022 at 13:42
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 4174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:56
Good point. BTW have you noticed the phrase "Mighty Hogweed is avenged, human bodies soon will know our anger..." and so on, was, like, recorded using varispeed to achieve a deeper voice?
Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie!
Back to Top
Heart of the Matter View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 01 2020
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 3021
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heart of the Matter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 14:10
Peter wasn't playing a man of science with a theory, he's more like the voice of desperate men who first think we have a chance, and then see that that's not the case.
Back to Top
Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 14:55
As far as im aware the song is a satire based on 'Day of the Triffids' but using the (actually very current) concern of the times (Victorian then again in the 60's/early 70's) regarding 'foreign' introductions of plants which might 'escape' our gardens and take over the countryside.. Giant Hogweed hasn't proven to be quite as 'invasive' as Japanese Knotweed or Himalayan Balsam but it does have some herbicidal resistance and though it tends to be monocarpic it produces a lot of viable seed. Like many of the larger umbellifers (including Hemlock and even Parsnip foliage) it has chemicals in its sap which if in contact with the skin, can cause severe blisters and burns when exposed to sunlight.

I'm sure most Genesis fans know the origins of this song but as a botanist and horticulturalist all i can say is that Peter is pretty accurate and its no surprise he has showed a fair bit of interest in Gardening in his own lifeSmileWink

Back to Top
Easy Money View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 15:33
^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu.
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2052
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 15:38
I always thought "strike by night..." was the plan of how they thought they could defeat the hogweed, but then when they try to do that they are surprised to find "still they're invincible..."
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 16:12
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu.

Yep.. its not something we have to deal with in the UK but i can see its no laughing matter..Wink

Back to Top
Easy Money View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 17:33
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu.


Yep.. its not something we have to deal with in the UK but i can see its no laughing matter..Wink
I know of at least two towns near here that are covered in the stuff, Helena Arkansas and Tupelo Mississippi. It covers everything in its path in a thick green blanket, trees, billboards, abandoned vehicles, abandoned buildings etc. It erodes soil and creates disasters. Helena imported it from China thinking it looked nice. They can't get rid of it now.
Back to Top
Manuel View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12418
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 19:56
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Peter wasn't playing a man of science with a theory, he's more like the voice of desperate men who first think we have a chance, and then see that that's not the case.
This is also my take on this.
Back to Top
Mascodagama View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2022 at 23:46
The question in my mind is why nobody on this forum uses Giant Progweed as a handle.
Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2022 at 02:53
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
Back to Top
Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2022 at 04:16
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?

Maybe its not thought out properly but the idea of them being 'defenseless' at night comes from the fact that in 'real' giant hogweed (and many other umbellifers) the chemical irritant in their sap only creates burns and blisters when the skin which came into contact to it is exposed to the sun; hence 'They all need the sun to photosensitize their venom'.. PG has just raised this to 'day of the triffid' proportions.

There were real hysterical horror stories in the early 70's about what effect contact with giant hogweed would do to you- it is nasty stuff but whilst ive only had very very minor skin irritation from them one chap i know put a strimmer into one and ended up in hospital, nearly lost his sight and was quite moderately scarred for life on face, hands and arms!Shocked

Back to Top
Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2022 at 04:22
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu.


Yep.. its not something we have to deal with in the UK but i can see its no laughing matter..Wink
I know of at least two towns near here that are covered in the stuff, Helena Arkansas and Tupelo Mississippi. It covers everything in its path in a thick green blanket, trees, billboards, abandoned vehicles, abandoned buildings etc. It erodes soil and creates disasters. Helena imported it from China thinking it looked nice. They can't get rid of it now.

Ive been looking a lot on line and doing a bit of research and i can see it REALLY is no laughing matterShocked its like a real world version of HG Well's Martian red weed!! (except that its not red..) We have infestations of Japanese Knotweed (which can undermine buildings, foundations, break up concrete and tarmac and cause you to not be able to sell your property or get a mortgage if you have it on your land..) but nothing like Kudzu!!

Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18374
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2022 at 05:09
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
Science?
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2022 at 06:57
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
Science?

Hang on, you said these villagers were thick as sh*t.
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18374
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2022 at 16:15
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'.
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
Science?

Hang on, you said these villagers were thick as sh*t.
Ok, I was being a little hyperbolic, but even idiots know plants need light to survive. At least one of them mentions photosynthesis so...
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 01:05
Invincible could have also been hyperbole for effect. You know, just like giant weed monsters in general. PROG!!!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Back to Top
Boojieboy View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 02 2016
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 583
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 16:12
The Hogweed are strongest during the day, when they recharge and strengthen themselves by sun and photosynthesis.

Striking by night would be when they are weakest. They're weak and defenseless without sun and photosynthesis.

Makes complete sense.


Edited by Boojieboy - January 24 2022 at 16:17
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 05:29
Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

The Hogweed are strongest during the day, when they recharge and strengthen themselves by sun and photosynthesis.

Striking by night would be when they are weakest. They're weak and defenseless without sun and photosynthesis.

Makes complete sense.

Well I was joking but my point was after saying they're defenceless he says they're still invincible. That's the contradiction.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.