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What does anyone hear in Porcupine Tree?

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Canterbury23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Canterbury23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What does anyone hear in Porcupine Tree?
    Posted: February 11 2022 at 12:02
As a 19 year old Prog fan who got into the genre with the 70s classics it's been interesting dipping my toe into Modern Prog. I enjoy most of the Technical Death Metal and Mathcore albums I've heard but Prog Metal itself is one of my least favorite metal subgenres and bands like Opeth and Dream Theater bore me(I've heard around 4 albums by each band) and I can hear when they are obviously ripping off an old band but there not even the worst offenders.
 I've had Porcupine Tree/ Steven Wilson's solo work recommended to me a lot and when I've checked it out I've found it very underwhelming and unprogressive. With Early PT it sounds like there ripping off Early Pink Floyd with a hint of Beatlesque pop but at least these albums aren't overrated or anything. But with this bands release in the 2000s I get even more frustrated. A lot of their songs follow a set formula with alt rock influences and poppy choruses followed by some "Prog Metal" riffs and the production sounds way too clean to the point that it lacks any meat to it. The long songs lack any interesting structures and get buried under long ambient sections. It's obvious that Steven Wilson was trying to be the next Pink Floyd/King Crimson and failing miserably. His solo work gets even more derivative and many songs sound like imitations of early Genesis and King Crimson and the Canterbury scene. I'm not trying to criticize Modern Prog or it's musicians just that I have little interest in it, I like bands like Tool and Primus that have clear Prog influences but don't try to sound like or harken back to the 70s and as a result they often aren't called Prog which I think isn't a bad thing, bands that are called Neoprog often sound a bit dull to my ears like they lack an artistic edge.the new British Art Rock/Post-Punk bands I've been really enjoying such as black midi and Black Country, New Road and I feel like there going for a unique style that has influences from Prog without repeating it. Overall what I'm saying is that Progressive Rock had such an amazing run in the early 70s that maybe it's ok that we leave it there and expand on the ideas that inspired them without copying there music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 12:20
Well, I'm presently listening to PT's 'Hatesong' and it sounds just as it did when I first heard it in 2000... pretty flippin' amazing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 12:29
You come across as someone who would enjoy falling down the stairs with a pan on your head.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 12:32
Pretty much anything past the 80's is not progressive anymore. The music simply has prog attributes but really does not have any newness or progressing qualities to it, overall. This is why you feel Porcupine Tree has so much Pink Floyd elements/influence, especially the early albums, very psychedelic.
I don't associate PT with prog metal, maybe a few songs here and there but not really, Modern Prog suits me fine. 
For me PT is one of the better if not defining bands of Modern Prog, because as you say it pulls from KC, PF, Genesis but with a modern sound to it.
As far as production quality, Steven Wilson is easily one of the best recording/mixing engineers of the past 20 years, his work in the studio with PT as well remixing many classic progressive rock albums is excellent.

SW last couple solo albums are not prog, they are very heavy pop/rock/alternative rock based, so again its how you look at labels. Most of it is very good to great music, especially the early albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 12:32
It tells me to murder my enemies and invest in shibacoin. 
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Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 13:07
I don’t care too much about music being progressive or not as long as I enjoy it. You can hardly make music today without getting inspiration from somewhere, often many places.

And there is no definition of prog. The umbrella has grown so large, you can’t find something that is common among every band.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 14:20
We all hear differently and respond to certain bands more favorably. No big deal if you don't like PT. Move on. There is so much music to explore. Enjoy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 14:28
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You come across as someone who would enjoy falling down the stairs with a pan on your head.  
Or more likely falling Up the Downstair while sleepwalking through a Stupid Dream. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canterbury23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 14:32
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

We all hear differently and respond to certain bands more favorably. No big deal if you don't like PT. Move on. There is so much music to explore. Enjoy.
Yeah and I'm enjoying this exploration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 14:33
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You come across as someone who would enjoy falling down the stairs with a pan on your head.  
Or more likely falling Up the Downstair while sleepwalking through a Stupid Dream. Smile

We have every anticipation that upon completion of your forthcoming, detailed PT deliberations, you will be able to furnish this young man with the benefits of your research... something the rest of us await from afar, with great interest... Approve 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 14:35
Well... I hear music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 15:00
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You come across as someone who would enjoy falling down the stairs with a pan on your head.  
Are you sure you're not thinking of someone else?


Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 15:20
^ Ah, yes, he came to my mind too...
Originally posted by Canterbury23 Canterbury23 wrote:

As a 19 year old Prog fan who got into the genre with the 70s classics it's been interesting dipping my toe into Modern Prog. (...)
 I've had Porcupine Tree/ Steven Wilson's solo work recommended to me a lot and when I've checked it out I've found it very underwhelming and unprogressive. With Early PT it sounds like there ripping off Early Pink Floyd with a hint of Beatlesque pop but at least these albums aren't overrated or anything. But with this bands release in the 2000s I get even more frustrated. A lot of their songs follow a set formula with alt rock influences and poppy choruses followed by some "Prog Metal" riffs and the production sounds way too clean to the point that it lacks any meat to it. The long songs lack any interesting structures and get buried under long ambient sections. It's obvious that Steven Wilson was trying to be the next Pink Floyd/King Crimson and failing miserably.

I pretty much agree with your assessment here, though I would probably write it down differently... For me, too, Steven Wilson is more harking back and compiling from his musical influences than creating "original" music. PT has never been able to convince me... However, his outings under the No-Man monniker, with Tim Bowness, are maybe more interesting. Not necessarily prog, but to me it is more original and more proper to these artists/musicians than any other endeavour he (Wilson) has been in. In my opinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 18:45
I’m not speaking on the subject of Porcupine Tree. However, more broadly, I think I at least partly understand the sentiment. I like the old 60s - 80s sounds. I think one version of Prog is to write new songs using the old sounds. But, I don’t enjoy listening to a song that is a blatant ripoff, especially of songs from the 60s to 80s. Even as a tribute, it is annoying. If someone wants to write a new composition that sounds like it could be a Rush song … as long as it is original composition … then I’m fine. But a band writing a new song that is obviously a variation of Limelight or Xanadu … then I inherently do not like it. For me, that irritation all started with when Vanilla Ice took the Grammy for sampling Queen/Bowie. Had they created an original composition but in the spirit of Queen, I would have been ok with it. Years later, I now understand that this is a new form of music … to sample and add. So, I’m not as irritated as I was when I first heard it.

I’m not sure why I feel this way. I think it is probably partly generational. When we were kids , we used to wait in anticipation for the new Top 40. We wanted to hear something original. When we waited for new album releases from our favorite bands, we were waiting for original composition. Sometimes there would be songs that were very close in composition and we would debate those. I should add that a song could be a crappy recording with a terrible singer, but if it is original interesting composition, I’ll probably still enjoy it.

I guess this is closely related to the other thread on … future of Prog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2022 at 20:04
I’m not quite sure what I see (or saw) in it either. Thinking back, I think it just scratched an itch for me - an itch for what I would have wanted from a “classic rock” angle in the modern age. Because although the old guys could still occasionally put out something that sounded nice and nostalgic, I got the feeling PT were a little more immediate and “hungry” than them. I don’t really think of them in prog terms, they just make cool and complex rock music, like they used to play on the radio in the 70s. I would say they’re a prog band, but that’s not what attracts me to them — I don’t really enjoy most modern prog unless it’s further on either the “avant side” or the “pop side”. But PT is the exception.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2022 at 03:43
PT for sure never were great innovators, I look for such qualities elsewhere. But much of their material does the magic for me just based on musicality and taste. This is hard to explain and very subjective, it has to do with whether I feel that music speaks to me on a deep individual emotional level (it stopped after Deadwing, SW's solo material rarely manages to do the trick). By the way I'd explain my love for Camel similarly. I just get the impression that everything in a track or on an album makes sense for me, has a flow, conveys a mood convincingly, and I'm sucked in. For sure good instrumental performances and sound don't hurt.
As this is so subjective, I'm with Grumpy - if you feel you get your kicks elsewhere, so be it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2022 at 05:03
If you get frustrated by music you don’t like, I’d recommend not listening to it. That some albums are highly rated doesn’t mean everyone is supposed to like it. It’s just statistic.

I don’t listen to music by trying to find any flaw I can. I just listen to music because I enjoy it. If they are influenced by some of the best bands, good for them. And probably good for me too since I like the music. I love PT and the early solo albums from SW. I also love Pink Floyd, Yes and King Crimson, but I’m not of the opinion that liking some bands exlude others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mellotronwave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2022 at 07:05
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

If you get frustrated by music you don’t like, I’d recommend not listening to it. That some albums are highly rated doesn’t mean everyone is supposed to like it. It’s just statistic.

I don’t listen to music by trying to find any flaw I can. I just listen to music because I enjoy it. If they are influenced by some of the best bands, good for them. And probably good for me too since I like the music. I love PT and the early solo albums from SW. I also love Pink Floyd, Yes and King Crimson, but I’m not of the opinion that liking some bands exlude others.


Good move
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2022 at 07:07
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

If you get frustrated by music you don’t like, I’d recommend not listening to it. That some albums are highly rated doesn’t mean everyone is supposed to like it. It’s just statistic.

I don’t listen to music by trying to find any flaw I can. I just listen to music because I enjoy it. If they are influenced by some of the best bands, good for them. And probably good for me too since I like the music. I love PT and the early solo albums from SW. I also love Pink Floyd, Yes and King Crimson, but I’m not of the opinion that liking some bands exlude others.

nicely put! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2022 at 09:03
I think the question is what drives a person to gravitate towards certain music. For me, I tend to gravitate towards original composition over anything else. I’m looking for original songs. I’ll listen to most forms of music and appreciate talent of all forms (great playing, nice voice, etc.), but what really gets my adrenaline pumping is a fresh new song composition, even at the expense of production quality or instrumental/vocal talent. I still listen though! I don’t cut off artists that I don’t particularly like. I can usually find something good in it.
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