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Plans on PA for becoming an all-music site?

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Necrotica View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2022 at 23:00
Originally posted by zwordser zwordser wrote:

But, I do think the site could use a little upgrading and perhaps some new features.  Seems like it's been the same thing for years.  For example, the platform for the forum (especially the polls) could use some improvement (this has been discussed a couple of times already). 

It would also be nice to have .5 increments for ratings (3.5, 4.5, etc.), as well as the ability to post a review on the front page even after already rating the album Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2022 at 23:09
I hope they remain true to progressive music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 00:48
I think OP was being sarcastic. And absolutely, that's true. I also think there are tons of not-even-close-to-being-prog bands in the archives, mostly labeled as "crossover prog" or "progressive electronic". :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 03:32
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I think OP was being sarcastic. And absolutely, that's true. I also think there are tons of not-even-close-to-being-prog bands in the archives, mostly labeled as "crossover prog" or "progressive electronic". :)

I wish I had your faith, but I am quite confident that David was not at all being sarcastic. His posts have time and time again shown his desire for a very narrowly defined idea of prog, and his bewilderment at many bands and artists already in PA.

As for the idea of not-even-close-to-being-prog, that is entirely subjective, and has been argued ad infinitum. PA’s idea of what is or is not prog is much wider than that of many who write in this forum, while simultaneously being much narrower than many people who enjoy and discuss prog outside PA. It is never going to be able to please all the people all the time, and it doesn’t set out to do that. If that makes people like David sad, or mad, so be it.

In the UK, I have definitely seen much dismissal and/or joking about PA, because of what it doesn’t consider to be prog. Bands and artists written about in Prog magazine, and in UK-based prog FB pages and groups; who are reviewed on UK-based prog websites, and who frequently perform at UK prog festivals (and whose headline and/or support gigs are advertised as prog) do not feature in PA. Whether or not I think they are prog, and whether or not PA think they are prog is somewhat irrelevant, for their UK audience.

I’m sure there are similar cases throughout the world. Certainly a great deal of the modern Aussie and Kiwi prog scene would not be likely to be prog “enough” for PA. But that doesn’t stop their audiences from thinking of them as prog, nor the bands themselves, nor the way they are advertised and promoted. A recent “Progressive Alliance” tour of Aotearoa had four main bands, plus support. Only one of the bands is in PA (suggested by me, as I thought they would be prog “enough”), and I doubt any of the others would make it in. Similarly, I’ve seen plenty of Aussie bands been suggested, and rejected, as not prog “enough”. That’s fine. PA has to draw the line somewhere, or else it will be “all music”.

But to think it is already “all music” is laughable. Outside PA, the site is almost renowned for its “snobbery” and “guardianship”, and narrow view of what is or isn’t prog. It’s really only within these walls, that people think that PA has too broad a definition of prog. We are far from being an “all music” site, and it is highly unlikely that PA will ever even come close to that.

If anyone thinks PA os already “all music”, or is headed that way, then that says far more about them and their own ideas on what is or is not prog, than it does about the site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 04:01
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


That is on basis of a number of reasons, but not least that I've seen many cases where collaborators were unwilling to discuss and put focus on Prog/Prog term, and where they listed very obviously non-Prog bands in Prog threads, like they wanted to diminish the significance of Prog and confuse the Prog term, while increasing the significance of other kind of music.

I really don't understand the reasons for it, and the only reason I can think of is such plans - or not exactly "all-music" as I haven't been thinking of including Classical.


Any examples? Is it down different collaborators definition of what is and isn't prog? Or are you referring to Hard Rock, Jazz or Blues acts being discussed in Prog threads?

I'm not much for mentioning names, and I mean the cases where it obviously not is the question of different Prog definitions. 
Personally, I think it's okay to list non-Prog bands in Prog threads, as long it's clearly stated, they are non-Prog, for not to risk confuse the Prog term.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 04:05
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

So you've seen someone posting non-prog bands in prog threads - and you're concerned that there's a hidden plan turning this into Allmusic behind it? Gimme a break! Do you use this (complete lack of) logic in other aspects of life, or just here? 

This is not good way to respond, Saperlipopette! Ouch Shocked

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 04:50
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


That is on basis of a number of reasons, but not least that I've seen many cases where collaborators were unwilling to discuss and put focus on Prog/Prog term, and where they listed very obviously non-Prog bands in Prog threads, like they wanted to diminish the significance of Prog and confuse the Prog term, while increasing the significance of other kind of music.

I really don't understand the reasons for it, and the only reason I can think of is such plans - or not exactly "all-music" as I haven't been thinking of including Classical.



Any examples? Is it down different collaborators definition of what is and isn't prog? Or are you referring to Hard Rock, Jazz or Blues acts being discussed in Prog threads?


I'm not much for mentioning names, and I mean the cases where it obviously not is the question of different Prog definitions. 
Personally, I think it's okay to list non-Prog bands in Prog threads, as long it's clearly stated, they are non-Prog, for not to risk confuse the Prog term.


Well that doesn't make it much clearer. If they are obviously non-prog why would we explicitly have to state they are non-prog?

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - August 04 2022 at 05:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 05:39
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

'Unwilling to discuss...Prog/Prog term': suppose you mean defining prog? Every prog genre is defined - and very well on PA IMO - and many collaborators - like myself - have discussed what prog is over and over for many years so if you care to have a look at the discussions over the years you'll see that we're not unwilling to discuss. Can you elaborate on this unwillingness ?

I mean the cases the last nine months where some collaborators actually seemed to be trying prevent others in discussing Prog as a term or phenomenon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 05:49
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

'Unwilling to discuss...Prog/Prog term': suppose you mean defining prog? Every prog genre is defined - and very well on PA IMO - and many collaborators - like myself - have discussed what prog is over and over for many years so if you care to have a look at the discussions over the years you'll see that we're not unwilling to discuss. Can you elaborate on this unwillingness ?

I mean the cases the last nine months where some collaborators actually seemed to be trying prevent others in discussing Prog as a term or phenomenon.


I think you are either being sarcastic or seeing conspiracies where there are none. To think collaborators are spending time trying to prevent people talking prog on a prog board is bizarre. It's a fun little site we like to chat on. Are we personally bored with "what is prog?" threads? Probably, we've been here for many years and it's been talked to death. We're not stopping anyone else talking it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 06:27
Defining prog is an impossible task. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Edited by Hrychu - August 04 2022 at 06:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 06:33
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

So you've seen someone posting non-prog bands in prog threads - and you're concerned that there's a hidden plan turning this into Allmusic behind it? Gimme a break! Do you use this (complete lack of) logic in other aspects of life, or just here? 
This is not good way to respond, Saperlipopette! Ouch Shocked
My honest response is the only response I got. Good is beside the point. Your "concern" comes across as silly to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 06:34
Why would it?

There is a General Music discussions forum on this site to discuss non prog music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VianaProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 07:05
Absolutely not. As its name says, this a site with the intention to be a real archive of prog. There are many other sites that we can call generalistic sites. Besides, there are also many other sites that are focused on prog, jazz and metal, for instance.

What we really nedd is to be focused on a specific niche of music as complete as possible, which is prog. Anyway, this site has also many bands that aren't properly prog but only related to prog. Furthermore, we can discuss other types of music in the forum. 

To be a generalist is the opposite of being a specialist. What we need in the world today is of people that are knowing what they're saying about a certain matter and not people that talk about anything trying to seem experts in everything.

This was and still is, the main reason why I'm still a collaborator on Proarchives, regularly, as a prog reviewer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 07:18
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I think OP was being sarcastic. And absolutely, that's true. I also think there are tons of not-even-close-to-being-prog bands in the archives, mostly labeled as "crossover prog" or "progressive electronic". :)

I won't say, I'm sarcastic in my OP, but my reasons for this thread are some frustration and worry for sure. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 07:51
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

So you've seen someone posting non-prog bands in prog threads - and you're concerned that there's a hidden plan turning this into Allmusic behind it? Gimme a break! Do you use this (complete lack of) logic in other aspects of life, or just here? 
This is not good way to respond, Saperlipopette! Ouch Shocked
My honest response is the only response I got. Good is beside the point. Your "concern" comes across as silly to me.

How about try to see things from my perspective and think about some ethic rules?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 08:04
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

So you've seen someone posting non-prog bands in prog threads - and you're concerned that there's a hidden plan turning this into Allmusic behind it? Gimme a break! Do you use this (complete lack of) logic in other aspects of life, or just here? 
This is not good way to respond, Saperlipopette! Ouch Shocked
My honest response is the only response I got. Good is beside the point. Your "concern" comes across as silly to me.

How about try to see things from my perspective and think about some ethic rules?


What perspective though? This is a prog-centric site, so you clearly knew what kind of responses you'd get when you posted the topic. As many people have already said, there are plenty of sites that cater to all genres - RateYourMusic, Allmusic, Sputnikmusic (shameless plug!), etc. - but PA is specifically meant to be about prog... hell, it's in the name of the site. I hope I can be proven wrong about this, but a lot of this thread seems intended more for bait than legitimate discussion. 

But that wouldn't be your intention now, would it? Wink


Edited by Necrotica - August 04 2022 at 08:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 08:08
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

So you've seen someone posting non-prog bands in prog threads - and you're concerned that there's a hidden plan turning this into Allmusic behind it? Gimme a break! Do you use this (complete lack of) logic in other aspects of life, or just here? 
This is not good way to respond, Saperlipopette! Ouch Shocked
My honest response is the only response I got. Good is beside the point. Your "concern" comes across as silly to me.
How about try to see things from my perspective and think about some ethic rules?
As far as I'm concerned I've done both those things. If you can't take a reply like this, then you shouldn't post conspiracy theory-like suspicions about some secret plan among collaboratos wanting to turn PA into an all-music site. It's silly, bonkers, crazy etc... and that's my thought through reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 08:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 09:15
Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Man, I hope not. I like my prog undiluted.

Well then you probably don't like this site too much. On here there's jazz rock fusion, progressive electronic, raga, psychedelic, crossover, not to mention three kinds of prog metal, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2022 at 09:17
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Why would it?

There is a General Music discussions forum on this site to discuss non prog music.


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