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David_D View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 12 2023 at 04:59

       Lyrics can be experienced to be good in different ways, like poetic, informing, funny, socially-engaged or
maybe even culture and society changing.

Edit: Lyrics can also be very positively influential on the way all the sonic parts of the music are experienced.

How do you find lyrics to be good?

And I hope, you'll enjoy it! Smile


Edited by David_D - April 17 2023 at 13:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 06:01
I nwould say profound and meaningfull, like "the lyrics in The Moody Blues' "A Question of Balance."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 09:44
I enjoy the lyrics of the following.

Rush
Echolyn
Kansas
Bubblemath
Some Zappa
Weird Al
XTC
Elvis Costello
Joe Jackson

I'm sure I missed a few.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 10:44
Being in English helps !
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 11:31
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

How do you find lyrics to be good?

More often than not when it's in a language I don't understand.

But I often love Joni Mitchells lyrics and storytelling. Like in Coyote... Rainy Night House... Carey... Free Man in Paris. Kind of straight forward yet very poetic and sophistcated. And her arrangements always seem to match every word sung. Yes, that's when I really love good lyrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 11:42
They got me a good grade for English at high-school where I used the lyrics of Harold Land by Yes and Forgotten Sons by Marillion as examples of contemporary poetry...

Otherwise, I don't have a recipe for what makes lyrics good; I can like silly lyrics, very poetic lyrics, committed lyrics, etc. as long as they're well written, but I don't know what "well written" is about... Ermm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 11:56
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Being in English helps !

Not for everybody, and I wouldn't say, there's much to complain about. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 13:10
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

How do you find lyrics to be good?

More often than not when it's in a language I don't understand.

But I often love Joni Mitchells lyrics and storytelling. Like in Coyote... Rainy Night House... Carey... Free Man in Paris. Kind of straight forward yet very poetic and sophistcated. And her arrangements always seem to match every word sung. Yes, that's when I really love good lyrics.

I have to say, Rollon, that I like your posts quite a lot, mostly being informative, interesting and enjoyable. Thumbs Up

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2023 at 21:33
Prog lyrics have been fundamentally life-changing for me! 

At university (Univ of Illinois, 1973-77) I had intended to pursue medicine.  However, at this time, the USA was in turmoil from the Viet Nam war, and the deteriorating environment made headlines nightly.  It was very depressing. 

Jon Anderson's lyrics changed me and inspired me to pursue a path towards political peace and environmental justice! 

Getting over overhanging trees, let them rape the forest

Thoughts would send our fusion

Clearly to be home

Getting over wars we do not mean or so it seems so clearly

Sheltered with our passion

Clearly to be home


 I thought "I'll be damned if I'll stand by and let them rape the forests!"   Therefore, I changed academic direction and subsequently became an award-winning environmental scientist.  


I told this story to Jon Anderson after a concert in Chicago (35th Anniversary Tour, May 4th, 2004) and he gave me a wonderful, sweet smile! Heart


This is my present consultancy....http://www.neochloris.com



Edited by cstack3 - April 12 2023 at 21:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 04:38
Recently the lyrics on DSOTM have heavily resonated with me, especially the first few lines of Breathe but also Time and Us and Them. I have to now accept that is a bloody masterpiece even if good ole Rog is not quite with it anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Starjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 05:12
Lyrics that make me think and smile at the same time...for me the master of this was Geoff Mann.

Otherwise lyrics that make me smile, chuckle, chortle or laugh out loud; as as longtime UK expat, the lyrics of Half Man Half Biscuit do this and are at the same time a goldmine of cultural information about my homeland.
To some extent also goes for Jethro Tull, Strawbs, The Damned, Ian Dury (and the Blockheads) et al.

On the other hand I get irritated by obscure and arty-farty words from the likes of Fish ("Fugazi", the song, for example) or Jon Anderson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 06:39
Hi,

I do not look at "lyrics" any different than I do any poem, or literature ... the "idea" is the same, even if the medium is slightly different.

The only thing that bothers me, is someone being "clever" and thinking themselves a good lyricist, which he/she might be for that song, or band, but in general, really poor on its own ... and the truth of the words is them standing up on their own without the music ... you still have the inner visions from it, which is something I like to joke that rock fans lack, which is why they have to be "told" the story!

The problem is that the "story" can be a lie, and thus not meaningful, even if the singer makes it look important, but in the end ... you're getting fooled ... again and again, and if I may say so, many of us, at times myself included, still don't know we're getting fooled! And the many thoughts and comments here, at time for me, really confuse matters even worse.

The so-called "arty-farty" words, is simply a comment for a person that is not sure what it all means ... Fish, for example, has been downright serious and on topic all his life in the lyrics he comes up with and sings ... so considering him that is weird, when he is simply more educated than the majority of rock singers out there that know nothing but the beat and a song! We might as well call Shakespeare "arty-farty" because half the time we have no idea what he is on about, specially when he is being downright bawdy, which was his way of making sure the audience stayed with the play!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 06:56
I tend to like socially-engaging lyrics (like Lennon's Working Class Hero) best  and putting some spite and irony into singing those lyrics help out a bit. 

Floyd/Waters lyrics have certainly had an impact or influence on me (either in everyday life or philosophy), as did early Jethro Tull (Aqualung and especially TAAB). Some early Genesis, Caravan, VdGG, Rush tracks' lyrics have also had a slight impact on me. (Marillion's Script is also a biggie, but that's about it in that area)

In the French realm, Jacques Brel and Noir Désir have had +/- the same type of (relatively heavy) impact on me. The slam of Grand Corps Malade certainly invite me to have thoughts about what he says. 
In general, it's somewhat quite harder for me to ignore French lyrics, so I'm harsher and more demanding when it come to francophone texts, but have found a higher appreciation in that area. I would even risk a generality in saying that on the average, French lyrics are generally of better quality than other neighboring languages. 

==============

There is also another category of lyrics that I tend to listen to are those visually-arresting (if that makes sense)Wacko, being either funny  (the Dog, The Dog, he's at it again), poetic (maybe not that much in Jon's way), or simply a good storyline (Child In Time). Claude Nougaro's lyrics can be profound and finny at the same time. 

Of course, successive lyrics in a concept album enter this second category (like Gong's RGI trilogy), as long as I dig the concept's subject. 
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Starjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 07:12
Some key points missed in the opening question:

=========================================
Lyrics can be experienced to be good in different ways, like poetic, informing, funny, socially-engaged or
even culture and society changing.

How do you find lyrics to be good?

Enjoy it! Smile
=====================================================
The call was for subjective experiences, feelings and opinions.

End of.


Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I do not look at "lyrics" any different than I do any poem, or literature ... the "idea" is the same, even if the medium is slightly different.

The only thing that bothers me, is someone being "clever" and thinking themselves a good lyricist, which he/she might be for that song, or band, but in general, really poor on its own ... and the truth of the words is them standing up on their own without the music ... you still have the inner visions from it, which is something I like to joke that rock fans lack, which is why they have to be "told" the story!

The problem is that the "story" can be a lie, and thus not meaningful, even if the singer makes it look important, but in the end ... you're getting fooled ... again and again, and if I may say so, many of us, at times myself included, still don't know we're getting fooled! And the many thoughts and comments here, at time for me, really confuse matters even worse.

The so-called "arty-farty" words, is simply a comment for a person that is not sure what it all means ... Fish, for example, has been downright serious and on topic all his life in the lyrics he comes up with and sings ... so considering him that is weird, when he is simply more educated than the majority of rock singers out there that know nothing but the beat and a song! We might as well call Shakespeare "arty-farty" because half the time we have no idea what he is on about, specially when he is being downright bawdy, which was his way of making sure the audience stayed with the play!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 13:22
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I would even risk a generality in saying that on the average, French lyrics are generally of better quality than other neighboring languages. 

Interesting. I'd also say that Polish pre-1989 lyrics can be very good and suprisingly system-critical.

Quote
There is also another category of lyrics that I tend to listen to are those visually-arresting (if that makes sense)Wacko, being either funny  (the Dog, The Dog, he's at it again), poetic (maybe not that much in Jon's way), or simply a good storyline (Child In Time). Claude Nougaro's lyrics can be profound and finny at the same time. 

I love Child in Time lyrics quite a lot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2023 at 15:03
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog lyrics have been fundamentally life-changing for me! 

At university (Univ of Illinois, 1973-77) I had intended to pursue medicine.  However, at this time, the USA was in turmoil from the Viet Nam war, and the deteriorating environment made headlines nightly.  It was very depressing. 

Jon Anderson's lyrics changed me and inspired me to pursue a path towards political peace and environmental justice! 

Getting over overhanging trees, let them rape the forest

Thoughts would send our fusion

Clearly to be home

Getting over wars we do not mean or so it seems so clearly

Sheltered with our passion

Clearly to be home


 I thought "I'll be damned if I'll stand by and let them rape the forests!"   Therefore, I changed academic direction and subsequently became an award-winning environmental scientist.  


I told this story to Jon Anderson after a concert in Chicago (35th Anniversary Tour, May 4th, 2004) and he gave me a wonderful, sweet smile! Heart


This is my present consultancy....http://www.neochloris.com  Thumbs Up

Quite amazing life-changing experience with lyrics which can happen in some extraordinary circumstances. 


Edited by David_D - April 13 2023 at 15:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 03:43
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

...
In the French realm, Jacques Brel and Noir Désir have had +/- the same type of (relatively heavy) impact on me. The slam of Grand Corps Malade certainly invite me to have thoughts about what he says. 
In general, it's somewhat quite harder for me to ignore French lyrics, so I'm harsher and more demanding when it come to francophone texts, but have found a higher appreciation in that area. I would even risk a generality in saying that on the average, French lyrics are generally of better quality than other neighboring languages. 
...
 


Hi,

A lot of this was what brought me to ANGE really early on ... the atmospheric, the poetic, and the nature of the singing was not about the song ... it was about the story and its content. To me, being Portuguese (still!), this makes sense within the Latin languages, although I have not felt quite the same about Spanish or Portuguese music at all ... Italian is a bit different, at least in how it is done ... for example ... Banco was incredible, but the singer made it happen, with his poetic and operatic voice. Le Orme, was really nice, and soft, and very clean in their lyrics, despite some ... we might consider not very good translations. PFM was really great in the early days, until all of a sudden the "story" was killed, for a song, and that was the end of them for me.

Then, you look at a Peter Hammill, and even a Kate Bush, and the individuality is about the emotion and the expression, many times as theatrical as is possible, which to me is similar to the early ANGE (in a weird sort of way), but it becomes something that most people don't like in rock music ... too much individuality and no one understands anything seems to be the problem.

But the history of the arts, like it or not, has been about the individuality, so I'm always wondering why a song without individuality, or some of the women you hear on the radio these days that have the voice and know the notes and have no soul behind it whatsoever. Heck, the kitchen and bath scenarios are usually better than that!

I'm not sure that "lyrics" are the important thing ... you can take Shakespeare and smash it senseless and no one will get anything, just like you can channel Ian and make it awful. People don't like Jon, because they dislike the idea, the concept and the philosophy which is so far and away from western bullsh*t! Reminds me of Ginsberg ... reading his stuff never got through but one day, in a silly movie about so much crap, he reads his own poem and the words have a very strong life ... same thing for Burroughs ... it's better heard, not read! (we keep looking for meanings and can't find them and it distracts us away from the "lyrics")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 05:16
Originally posted by Starjet Starjet wrote:

On the other hand I get irritated by obscure and arty-farty words from the likes of Fish ("Fugazi", the song, for example) or Jon Anderson.

While concerning Fish, I can tell that I like a lot the lyrics of Script for a Jester's Tear, and not least on "He Knows, You Know", "Chelsea Monday" and "Forgotten Sons".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 05:25
Originally posted by Starjet Starjet wrote:


On the other hand I get irritated by obscure and arty-farty words from the likes of Fish ("Fugazi", the song, for example) or Jon Anderson.

"arty-farty"? That's harsh TBH, especially applied to Fish's lyrics. I disagree. 
Jon Anderson's lyrics? In Yes, maybe, but it's never bothered me. I don't like his solo work, so I don't care there TBH. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 06:25
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

A lot of this was what brought me to ANGE really early on ... the atmospheric, the poetic, and the nature of the singing was not about the song ... it was about the story and its content. To me, being Portuguese (still!), this makes sense within the Latin languages, although I have not felt quite the same about Spanish or Portuguese music at all ... Italian is a bit different, at least in how it is done ... for example ... Banco was incredible, but the singer made it happen, with his poetic and operatic voice. Le Orme, was really nice, and soft, and very clean in their lyrics, despite some ... we might consider not very good translations. PFM was really great in the early days, until all of a sudden the "story" was killed, for a song, and that was the end of them for me.

Then, you look at a Peter Hammill, and even a Kate Bush, and the individuality is about the emotion and the expression, many times as theatrical as is possible, which to me is similar to the early ANGE (in a weird sort of way), but it becomes something that most people don't like in rock music ... too much individuality and no one understands anything seems to be the problem.

indeed interesting, Mosh


Edited by David_D - April 14 2023 at 06:27
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