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Dapper~Blueberries View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 21 2023 at 09:03
Eh I still think Frost* are neo prog. They got the vibes, y'know

As for me, I feel like Big Big Train should be in symphonic prog, same with Styx. Also Mr. Bungle should be in prog related, they aren't really prog, just very avant garde funk metal, like Primus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2023 at 10:08
Yep Frost* belong under 'Neo' as much as Porcupine Tree do (but it would be hilarious to put the latter there just to annoy S Wilson lol). Jem even did a video where he went out of his way to explain that they were deliberately avoiding all the Neo type prog stuff (he had listened to a ton of it and wasn't impressed apparently).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2023 at 00:26
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

^And I SWEAR they were when I first came to this site around 5 years ago or so (before getting on the forums), but they must have been moved.

I think they always were under neo, I could be wrong though. Confused If they were moved from crossover to neo, it was wrong IMO. Smile


Edited by Cristi - August 21 2023 at 00:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2023 at 00:15
^And I SWEAR they were when I first came to this site around 5 years ago or so (before getting on the forums), but they must have been moved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2023 at 00:12
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Not a "Kscope" example, but Frost* is the kind of group that does not evoke the 80s- mid 90s style of Neo.

True, I've always thought they fit better under crossover. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2023 at 00:03
Not a "Kscope" example, but Frost* is the kind of group that does not evoke the 80s- mid 90s style of Neo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2023 at 06:49
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

yep! And as much as I vibe with the "Kscope Prog" atmosphere and mood, many of these artists are barely Prog-Related honestly

some examples of bands would help prove your point a bit better. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2023 at 06:32
^ if only there were a website that allowed everyone to vote on these things Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2023 at 05:01
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

the most annoying thing for me is seeing a bunch of contemporary artists thrown into Neo Prog. I mean come on Neo Prog was/is such a distinctive sound/scene, why label every second post-80s Prog band as Neo, jeez. I swear like 60% of the current Neo Prog list on PA is actually Alternative Prog/AtmoProg (I call it "Kscope Prog")

My thoughts exactly. A few contemporary bands from the mid 00s onward maybe sound enough like those foundational 80s-mid 90s neo bands to qualify, but on the whole, a lot of them belong in symph or, more likely, crossover, on this site.
yep! And as much as I vibe with the "Kscope Prog" atmosphere and mood, many of these artists are barely Prog-Related honestly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2023 at 02:23
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Jethro Tull is hard rock / heavy metal.  They even won some kind of award of it.

LOL And who would know more about that than the Grammy people

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 22:41
Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

Yeah what a good number of people are posting here are my exact sentiments. What I thought about posting has already been posted. Some bands fit under more than one category during different eras which doesnít make categorizing any easier.

Big Big Train may have started out as Crossover Prog but have been far more Symphonic Prog for a long time now. Riverside is definitely more Heavy Prog which someone already pointed out.
Some I did not see listed. Oingo Boingo-Crossover Prog? I donít think so Tim.

Agree on Riverside. Oingo Boingo are probably a better fit for Prog Related. The first three albums and the final one are certainly progressive within that niche (not "prog" as such, but progressive). But I think that first album of theirs was really the most innovative. If they extrapolated further from there, they'd maybe work in Crossover, but considering that's just one of their albums, overall, Related might be better.

That first one kills though. NAAASTYYYY HAAAABIIIIITS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 22:37
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

the most annoying thing for me is seeing a bunch of contemporary artists thrown into Neo Prog. I mean come on Neo Prog was/is such a distinctive sound/scene, why label every second post-80s Prog band as Neo, jeez. I swear like 60% of the current Neo Prog list on PA is actually Alternative Prog/AtmoProg (I call it "Kscope Prog")
My thoughts exactly. A few contemporary bands from the mid 00s onward maybe sound enough like those foundational 80s-mid 90s neo bands to qualify, but on the whole, a lot of them belong in symph or, more likely, crossover, on this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 20:56
Jethro Tull is hard rock / heavy metal.  They even won some kind of award of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:37
the most annoying thing for me is seeing a bunch of contemporary artists thrown into Neo Prog. I mean come on Neo Prog was/is such a distinctive sound/scene, why label every second post-80s Prog band as Neo, jeez. I swear like 60% of the current Neo Prog list on PA is actually Alternative Prog/AtmoProg (I call it "Kscope Prog")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:32
^ but also many bands listed as proto-prog came after what was truly considered prog. Frank Zappa, The Moody Blues, The Electric Prunes, Soft Machine and others had already developed prog rock before many of the proto-prog bands listed here. I guess they are regarded as supplemental helpers for getting the prog party started but the choices of why one artist is here and another is not is a bit baffling to someone just dropping in.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:25
 ^ Keep in mind Proto-prog is not a subgenre or category of progressive rock, it is a historical section of artists deemed significant to the development of what became known as progressive rock.   

Again--  not Prog.   A tip of the hat to the bold artistry of the 1960s that led to Prog.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote altered_beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 16:39
Yeah what a good number of people are posting here are my exact sentiments. What I thought about posting has already been posted. Some bands fit under more than one category during different eras which doesnít make categorizing any easier.

Big Big Train may have started out as Crossover Prog but have been far more Symphonic Prog for a long time now. Riverside is definitely more Heavy Prog which someone already pointed out.
Some I did not see listed. Oingo Boingo-Crossover Prog? I donít think so Tim.

Proto Prog is the category I have the most difficult time with. Some of the most prominent bands that fit into this category have been listed as Crossover Prog. When I think of Proto Prog Procol Harum, Family, Itís a Beautiful Day, Moody Blues, etc come to mind.
I understand bands like The Beatles, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, etc may have influenced Prog in some ways but also influenced other genres. I donít think of these bands being Proto Prog at all. Ok so Vanilla Fudge had 1 album Renaissance which is a very important album. Too many of the bands listed in the Proto Prog category just donít belong on the website at all. A few of the Prog Related and Crossover Prog have some inconsistencies that leave me scratching my head but the Proto Prog category has too many issues. One manís opinion. I welcome yours.

Edited by altered_beast - August 19 2023 at 16:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 07:05
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Doors were a pop band.

Hi,

Given their ability, work and long cuts, and meaningful experience for the most part, I would think that they defy the idea of what a pop band means, and later in life, even Ray M. expressed the feeling that they did not like that "radio" was telling them what to do ... they wanted to be a "visual" band, one that kinda evolved from FILM ... for its ideas, and Jim M. managed to do that beautifully many times. 

If you say ... yummy yummy the love is in my tummy, I can handle that ... but saying that Light My Fire, which you could easily say is about an erection ... is scary ... very scary ... and I am pretty sure that all members of The Doors, knew the difference between crap and real stuff.

That makes them NOT A pop band.


Just because a band is edgy and has more contemplative lyrics doesn't mean they can't be a pop band.

Pop means POPULAR MUSIC with catchy melodic hooks. The Doors did it better than most but essentially they were a psychedelic pop rock band that perfectly exudes the zeitgeist of the era even in the modern day.

Sure they had extended jam sessions but so did many other bands of the late 60s.

Innovative yes but i find the proto-prog claims a bit exaggerated.

The only album that really showcased any kind of progressive tendencies was The Soft Parade.

Tracks like "Strange Days" were veering towards prog but most tracks were short and punchy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 06:51
^ Yummy Yummy Yummy was done by Ohio Express. That video is totally mistagged.

First of all it shows The Best of the 1910 Fruitgum Co.: Simon Says album cover and yet that song isn't on it.

Someone obviously mixed up the two bands most likely due to the fact they released a split album with this song (done by Ohio Express) on it.

I guess we can add mistagged videos to this discussion! LOL




Edited by siLLy puPPy - August 19 2023 at 07:00

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 06:26
^ You're right! There's a world of difference between the Kings of Acid Rock and the Bubblegum Pop of the 1910 Fruitgum Company. Smile

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