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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

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Points: 14979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2023 at 22:13
^ metal doesn't need to shred. It just needs to be heavy. You seem to have your own definition of metal.

Magic Pie is more metal than some bands listed as such here like Riverside for example.

I'd probably vote eclectic overall though because it's a roller coaster ride of ideas which is why i love them.



Edited by siLLy puPPy - August 16 2023 at 22:17

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terramystic View Drop Down
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I agree that RPI, krautrock and neo-prog descriptors don't make much sense.

RPI bands are mostly sypmhonic prog (Area as one of exceptions is more jazzy and eclectic).

Krautrock is psych/space rock from Germany.

Neo-prog is mostly symphonic and crossover prog.

Edited by terramystic - August 18 2023 at 10:55
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I also believe Psychedelic/Space Rock should be divided into two separate genres. After all, The Doors aren't Space Rock and Hawkwind aren't Psychedelic Rock, although their light shows can be quite psychedelic at times - keeping in tune with the Spirit of the Age. Smile



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - August 18 2023 at 11:33
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The Doors aren't in Psychadelic/Space Rock they are in Proto Prog.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 37096 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2023 at 12:34
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Doors aren't in Psychadelic/Space Rock they are in Proto Prog.

I must admit, I'd never thought of The Doors as a Proto Prog band - at least not until I arrived here at ProgArchives. Tongue
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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The Doors were a pop band.
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richardh View Drop Down
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The Jackson Five were also a pop band Wink
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 14979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2023 at 21:38
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Doors were a pop band.


A psychedelic pop band. I'm still not sure how they are proto-prog!

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Points: 41964 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 02:03
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Doors were a pop band.


A psychedelic pop band. I'm still not sure how they are proto-prog!

Also psychedelic rock. They can be considered proto-prog for their long epic, theatrical songs, they could easily go beyond the structure of a pop/rock song, they could easily jam and so on. 
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Doors were a pop band.

Hi,

Given their ability, work and long cuts, and meaningful experience for the most part, I would think that they defy the idea of what a pop band means, and later in life, even Ray M. expressed the feeling that they did not like that "radio" was telling them what to do ... they wanted to be a "visual" band, one that kinda evolved from FILM ... for its ideas, and Jim M. managed to do that beautifully many times. 

If you say ... yummy yummy the love is in my tummy, I can handle that ... but saying that Light My Fire, which you could easily say is about an erection ... is scary ... very scary ... and I am pretty sure that all members of The Doors, knew the difference between crap and real stuff.

That makes them NOT A pop band.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Points: 37096 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 06:26
^ You're right! There's a world of difference between the Kings of Acid Rock and the Bubblegum Pop of the 1910 Fruitgum Company. Smile
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 14979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 06:51
^ Yummy Yummy Yummy was done by Ohio Express. That video is totally mistagged.

First of all it shows The Best of the 1910 Fruitgum Co.: Simon Says album cover and yet that song isn't on it.

Someone obviously mixed up the two bands most likely due to the fact they released a split album with this song (done by Ohio Express) on it.

I guess we can add mistagged videos to this discussion! LOL




Edited by siLLy puPPy - August 19 2023 at 07:00

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 14979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 07:05
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Doors were a pop band.

Hi,

Given their ability, work and long cuts, and meaningful experience for the most part, I would think that they defy the idea of what a pop band means, and later in life, even Ray M. expressed the feeling that they did not like that "radio" was telling them what to do ... they wanted to be a "visual" band, one that kinda evolved from FILM ... for its ideas, and Jim M. managed to do that beautifully many times. 

If you say ... yummy yummy the love is in my tummy, I can handle that ... but saying that Light My Fire, which you could easily say is about an erection ... is scary ... very scary ... and I am pretty sure that all members of The Doors, knew the difference between crap and real stuff.

That makes them NOT A pop band.


Just because a band is edgy and has more contemplative lyrics doesn't mean they can't be a pop band.

Pop means POPULAR MUSIC with catchy melodic hooks. The Doors did it better than most but essentially they were a psychedelic pop rock band that perfectly exudes the zeitgeist of the era even in the modern day.

Sure they had extended jam sessions but so did many other bands of the late 60s.

Innovative yes but i find the proto-prog claims a bit exaggerated.

The only album that really showcased any kind of progressive tendencies was The Soft Parade.

Tracks like "Strange Days" were veering towards prog but most tracks were short and punchy.

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altered_beast View Drop Down
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Yeah what a good number of people are posting here are my exact sentiments. What I thought about posting has already been posted. Some bands fit under more than one category during different eras which doesn’t make categorizing any easier.

Big Big Train may have started out as Crossover Prog but have been far more Symphonic Prog for a long time now. Riverside is definitely more Heavy Prog which someone already pointed out.
Some I did not see listed. Oingo Boingo-Crossover Prog? I don’t think so Tim.

Proto Prog is the category I have the most difficult time with. Some of the most prominent bands that fit into this category have been listed as Crossover Prog. When I think of Proto Prog Procol Harum, Family, It’s a Beautiful Day, Moody Blues, etc come to mind.
I understand bands like The Beatles, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, etc may have influenced Prog in some ways but also influenced other genres. I don’t think of these bands being Proto Prog at all. Ok so Vanilla Fudge had 1 album Renaissance which is a very important album. Too many of the bands listed in the Proto Prog category just don’t belong on the website at all. A few of the Prog Related and Crossover Prog have some inconsistencies that leave me scratching my head but the Proto Prog category has too many issues. One man’s opinion. I welcome yours.

Edited by altered_beast - August 19 2023 at 16:40
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 64771 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:25
 ^ Keep in mind Proto-prog is not a subgenre or category of progressive rock, it is a historical section of artists deemed significant to the development of what became known as progressive rock.   

Again--  not Prog.   A tip of the hat to the bold artistry of the 1960s that led to Prog.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 14979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:32
^ but also many bands listed as proto-prog came after what was truly considered prog. Frank Zappa, The Moody Blues, The Electric Prunes, Soft Machine and others had already developed prog rock before many of the proto-prog bands listed here. I guess they are regarded as supplemental helpers for getting the prog party started but the choices of why one artist is here and another is not is a bit baffling to someone just dropping in.

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the most annoying thing for me is seeing a bunch of contemporary artists thrown into Neo Prog. I mean come on Neo Prog was/is such a distinctive sound/scene, why label every second post-80s Prog band as Neo, jeez. I swear like 60% of the current Neo Prog list on PA is actually Alternative Prog/AtmoProg (I call it "Kscope Prog")
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Points: 32491 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2023 at 20:56
Jethro Tull is hard rock / heavy metal.  They even won some kind of award of it.
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

the most annoying thing for me is seeing a bunch of contemporary artists thrown into Neo Prog. I mean come on Neo Prog was/is such a distinctive sound/scene, why label every second post-80s Prog band as Neo, jeez. I swear like 60% of the current Neo Prog list on PA is actually Alternative Prog/AtmoProg (I call it "Kscope Prog")
My thoughts exactly. A few contemporary bands from the mid 00s onward maybe sound enough like those foundational 80s-mid 90s neo bands to qualify, but on the whole, a lot of them belong in symph or, more likely, crossover, on this site.
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Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

Yeah what a good number of people are posting here are my exact sentiments. What I thought about posting has already been posted. Some bands fit under more than one category during different eras which doesn’t make categorizing any easier.

Big Big Train may have started out as Crossover Prog but have been far more Symphonic Prog for a long time now. Riverside is definitely more Heavy Prog which someone already pointed out.
Some I did not see listed. Oingo Boingo-Crossover Prog? I don’t think so Tim.

Agree on Riverside. Oingo Boingo are probably a better fit for Prog Related. The first three albums and the final one are certainly progressive within that niche (not "prog" as such, but progressive). But I think that first album of theirs was really the most innovative. If they extrapolated further from there, they'd maybe work in Crossover, but considering that's just one of their albums, overall, Related might be better.

That first one kills though. NAAASTYYYY HAAAABIIIIITS!
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