"Filler" tracks on prog albums - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 20575

Posted: May 04 2006 at 18:07

Dirk wrote:

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I just read a review of Tool - 10,000 Days ... the reviewer complained about two tracks that he called "filler": Lipan Conjuring and Viginti Tres.

My problem with that is: The album has a play time of 77 minutes! Even if one doesn't like these tracks, I don't think that they should be taken into account when determining a rating for the album. IMO it's just additional content that shouldn't affect the rating - wouldn't it be awkward if the album was rated higher if they had left out these tracks?

That's an interesting statement. Does this mean that a record like Flower Power from TFK should
get a 5 star rating just because Garden of dreams is 60 minutes of 5 star music?. I would certainly
like that but i think it's against rating policy on this site.

Also on your own site it couldn't be done because all the tracks have to be rated before you get a
visible album rating. This also goes for the Tool example, you have to rate these "bonus" tracks if they
are not officially bonus.

I could simply mark these tracks as "bonus", as simple as that.

But I will not do that for the Tool album, the tracks don't meet the criteria that I posted above.

Candidates for what I mean are:

- Devin Townsend - Terria - "Outtake"

- The Flower Kings - Flower Power - "IKEA by Night"

Can't really think of any other albums right now.

Recently listened to:

crimson thing View Drop Down

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Joined: April 28 2006
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Posted: May 04 2006 at 19:30

Despite being a diehard fan, Id reckon KC to be one of the worst bands for inflicting "fillers" on the audience.

"Providence" from "Red" - half of you will probably agree with this, half think its a genius improv.

Somewhat more contentious - there are several tracks (IMHO) on "Starless & BB" not worth the candle. The band couldnt be a**ed to clean up & finish "The Mincer" - very lazy - & the tracks "The Great Deceiver", "We'll let you know" & "S&BB" itself all need polishing. Could have been a great album, with more work.

And "Thrak" - what the f++k is "Radio I", "Radio II", "Inner Garden I" & "Inner Garden II" all about? If theyre not filler I'll eat my entire CD collection. They're not even worthy of being bonus tracks on the "Robert Fripp - scraping the barrel - worst of the outtakes" CD (volume 6).

Boy do we progheads have to eat some crap with our caviar....

Losendos

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Posted: May 04 2006 at 22:06

In my opinion filler is used too readily. A band may make a piece that seems musically less inspired for other reasons than just to fill up space.

For example

For Absent Friends contrasts between two epic tracks.

Silent sorrow in Empty Boats has atmospherics.

Are you ready Eddy ? leaves a light feeling after a heavy album. I like this track and think it finished nicely an outstanding album

The Clap showcases an individual's talents in between the more soild group effort. Listening to several talented people performing at once can be tiring.

I'm not sure the ideal 40 minute album would contain several talented musicians playing complex pieces with exquisite melodies in epic tracks.

For that reason I prefer albums like Fragile to albums like Tales from Topographic Ocean . The latter is a hard listen.

How wonderful to be so profound

____VdGG____ View Drop Down

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Joined: February 10 2006
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Posted: May 05 2006 at 02:18

The end of The Mincer always pissed the f#$K out of me! I always thought my CD was scratched or that something was wrong with it... I agree sort of with your opinions on the rest of SABB, crimson, but not with Providence

. It's my second favoite on the album (behind One More Red Nightmare)

Iron throated monsters are forcing the screams;
Mind and machinery box-press our dreams

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Prog Folk

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Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 19636

Posted: May 05 2006 at 03:59

Losendos wrote:

In my opinion filler is used too readily. A band may make a piece that seems musically less inspired for other reasons than just to fill up space.

For example

For Absent Friends contrasts between two epic tracks. >> not a filler IMHO More Fool Me on SEBTP is more of a filler >> the name even gives it away >> More Fill Me >> More Phil Me

Silent sorrow in Empty Boats has atmospherics. >> see below

Are you ready Eddy ? leaves a light feeling after a heavy album. I like this track and think it finished nicely an outstanding album >> already answered that >> A joke to eddie Offord I believe

The Clap showcases an individual's talents in between the more soild group effort. Listening to several talented people performing at once can be tiring. >> those five individual pieces are not fillers >> they are part of a concept

I'm not sure the ideal 40 minute album would contain several talented musicians playing complex pieces with exquisite melodies in epic tracks.

For that reason I prefer albums like Fragile to albums like Tales from Topographic Ocean

The latter is a hard listen.>> almost obtuse

About the debate of Lamb lies down which is overlong (a debate regularly coming back on the forum) , the real material is almost three sides of vinyl, but not material enough to market, therefore time must be found >> this debate is not a figment of my imagination either

Lamb Lies Down

Disc 1 time: 45:34
1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (4:50) >> debatable but useless intro >> overlong, simple partly a filler >< second choice material anyway
2. Fly on a Windshield (4:23)>> core material
3. Broadway Melody of 1974 (0:33) >> Core Material
4. Cuckoo Cocoon (2:11)>> core material
5. In the Cage (8:15) >> central piece of first disc
6. The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging (2:45) >> core material
7. Back in N.Y.C. (5:42) >> weaker but still quite central >> second choice material
8. Hairless Heart (2:13) >> core material
9. Counting Out Time (3:42) >> core material
10. The Carpet Crawlers (5:15) >> even if commercial >> core material
11. The Chamber of 32 Doors (5:40) >> core material

Disc 2 time: 48:49
1. Lillywhite Lilith (2:42)>> weaker >> second choice material
2. The Waiting Room (5:24) >> debatable but I think a filler , but a good one
3. Anyway (3:07)>> core material
4. The Supernatural Anaesthetist (2:59) >> filler >> allows Gabriel to get into his suit
5. The Lamia (6:57) >> core material >> central piece of disc 2
6. Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats (3:07) >> filler >> allows Gabriel to get out of his suit
7. Colony of Slippermen (8:13) >> core material >> second central piece of disc 2
8. Ravine (2:04) >> second choice material >> not far from a filler
9. The Light Dies Down on Broadway (3:32) >> logical outro , the story should end here but clearly the cojncept needed further chapters
10. Riding the Scree (3:57) >> Filler >> not really that much of a filler, but it has the feel because it is too long and is more of second choice material
11. In the Rapids (2:26)>> filler >> not really that much of a filler, but it has the feel because it is too long and is more of second choice material
12. It. (4:15) >> filler>> not really that much of a filler, but it has the feel because it is too long and is more of second choice material

Total Time 94:23 >> keeping the green tracks would've made one single almost perfect album

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Seamus is almso an excellent of a filler track

On the other hand, TFK is filling abums with fillers

Edited by Sean Trane - May 05 2006 at 08:23

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Big Ears

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Posted: May 05 2006 at 06:44

Are You Ready Eddie on Tarkus by ELP is not a filler. Seamus on Meddle by Pink Floyd is a filler. It wastes space on an otherwise great, but already very short, album. Everything but the title track on Open Your Eyes by Yes is a filler.

Fillers are a way of padding out albums to meet contractual deadlines, rather than considering the fans.