power metal example

^ that's exactly the approach that I use on my website - let people choose the label. Of course with that approach the problems is that people use the terms differently. But in the end there will *never* be a consensus, so why try to force it? Give people a list of genres, along with an explanation of the characteristic attributes of the genres, and let them choose the one that they think matches the album. That's all you can do!

Serguilloche wrote: ^ ^^ How I wish I was so absolutely convinced of my total and utter superiority that no matter what anyone else says, I will argue against them even by inventing opinions I never had before. Mike, you're some sort of mod or something, so I will say this so very nicely, SPEED METAL IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFINE.  I'm sure anyone who understands how the internet works could find a definition for it.

I'm not a moderator or admin, you don't *have* to be nice to me.

Have a look at this page (I'll say something about your distrust for wikipedia afterwards):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_metal

Let me quote the first paragraph here:

"Speed metal is a cross-genre reference to bands, mainly from the thrash metal and power metal genres. The term is mainly used to differentiate between bands of either genre who use tempos or beats that are faster than is normal for either genre, but also tends to refer to bands that combine aspects of the two genres. Thundersteel by Riot (CBS/Sony 1988) is widely considered to be a seminal speed metal album. Bands such as Judas Priest and Accept, although not typically cited as speed metal bands, are usually considered to be the main developers of the faster tempos common amongst speed metal bands."

What I'm trying to show here that it may be valid for some bands to be in all three genres (thrash, power, speed).

Serguilloche wrote: Nobody trusts a website on everything, but dozens of knowledgeable writers are bound to be right more often than a single person.

Yes, that's why I often refer to wikipedia, which is a collaborative effort of dozens of writers - at least for popular terms like Speed Metal. If a wikipedia page is blatantly wrong you can be sure that someone will spot the error and correct it. I even read an interesting article about a study which compared randomly selected wikipedia pages to the entries of a very respected dictionary, and the result was that wikipedia was as acurate as those.

BTW: I'll try to find some pages of www.metal-archives.com that explain the term Speed Metal, I wouldn't be surprised if the result was similar to that wikipedia page.

Serguilloche wrote: Yes the genres do change ffs, just because you don't like it, does not make it so.  I can't believe the arrogance implied in your statement.  When I was a kid people referred to Slayer as Black Metal, now Slayer is thrash metal.  Similar to Kreator, Mercyful Fate, Helloween etc.  You can refer to stuff as Classic this and Classic that, but nobody else is doing so.

If you think I'm arrogant, that's your prerogative. However I'm neither afraid to admit mistakes, nor am I going to do everything like the others do.

BTW: I don't know if you know my website ... if not you should check it out, the key principle behind it is that the admins (myself, in this case) don't make any genre assignments. These are done by the users only, and the result is determined by a majority vote.

^
^^

How I wish I was so absolutely convinced of my total and utter superiority that no matter what anyone else says, I will argue against them even by inventing opinions I never had before.

Mike, you're some sort of mod or something, so I will say this so very nicely, SPEED METAL IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFINE.  I'm sure anyone who understands how the internet works could find a definition for it.

Nobody trusts a website on everything, but dozens of knowledgeable writers are bound to be right more often than a single person.

Yes the genres do change ffs, just because you don't like it, does not make it so.  I can't believe the arrogance implied in your statement.  When I was a kid people referred to Slayer as Black Metal, now Slayer is thrash metal.  Similar to Kreator, Mercyful Fate, Helloween etc.  You can refer to stuff as Classic this and Classic that, but nobody else is doing so.




Edited by Serguilloche - June 04 2006 at 09:39

Serguilloche wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ they don't say anything about the genre of Painkiller, do they? Yes, it's speed metal.  Every serious metal fan knows this. Metal-archives is to metal what Prog-archives is to prog, would anyone in here trust Wikipedia to get it right on a prog subject rather than PA? The definitions of metal genres changes, what was considered death metal 20 years ago might now be considered thrash metal.  Power metal is now really about bands like Gamma Ray, Angra, Dragonforce and maybe even the American type of PM, Iced Earth, Jag Panzer etc.  If you want to be stuck in the 80's considering Judas Priest and Impelliteri Power Metal then good for you, you probably shouldn't be surprised then if most people don't agree.

Edited by greenback - June 03 2006 at 22:01

DallasBryan wrote: gumby metal?

Edited by greenback - June 03 2006 at 14:28

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Duncan: Let's not make this a Power vs. Speed discussion - it's a little bit too "geeky". BTW: Judas Priest is considered to be neither Power nor Speed Metal at allmusic.com. This shows two things: - The criteria of Power Metal are highly arguable - there is really no consensus. - You can't assign genres to bands ... you have to assign them to albums.

Another interesting aspect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_metal_bands

Interestingly, this list contains both Impellitteri and Judas Priest. Does that prove that they're both Power Metal? No, it just shows that Power Metal isn't a clearly defined genre.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 03 2006 at 11:42

No.

That is not power metal, neither is Judas Priest. 

http://www.metal-archives.com/

This is the website that will get it most right much of the time.

Painkiller is straightforward speed metal. ;-)

Anyway, I can't believe you guys are trying to carry out this discussion with such distinctly second tier examples. What about Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys, Parts 1 and 2? Blind Guardian, maybe? I'd also suggest Virgin Steele as a less thrash-inspired contingent of the American school.

Oh, and for unbelievably stereotypical Euro-PM (try counting the cliches! Seriously, though, this band is going to be HUGE. All my non-metal-fan friends are listening to them):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8eeRg7fBUQ

Greenback, your problem is insisting that power metal is actually about power. It really isn't. Thundering bass? I'm trying to recall a classic PM album with even remotely distinctive bass-playing.

mystic fred wrote: This is Power Metal!!................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u5BqPmuScU&search=judas%20priest

Edited by greenback - June 02 2006 at 22:33