Influential prog albums |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 10:16 | |
Yeah, right... whatever... I think it's because Foxtrot is better musically; technically and in overall execution (although I might concede that Lake's vocals are the superior - however he loses points on lyrics). Banks simply owns Emerson - makes Keith look like a hopeful second-leaguer, and Collins is almost impossible to compare to Palmer - they're both brilliant on the two albums we're comparing. I will also concede that Genesis had two extra members - but would counter that by saying that it's harder to co-ordinate larger numbers of personnel.
/edit I have to take back one of my concessions - Greg's intonation on Brain Salad Surgery is pretty bad - especially on "Jerusalem". The tonal quality may be more pleasant, but Gabriel stays on key with more ease! Edited by Certif1ed |
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 10:31 | |
bicker bicker bicker
and of course prog is english guys telling fairytale stories! where have you been? for mikemon's sake, yes there are other acts, particularly American ones like Kansas, but all told progressive rock is predominantly english and was predominantly popular in Canterbury in the early 70s. |
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
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arcer
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 01 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1239 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 10:39 | |
Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon is without doubt
the most influential record in prog. The mere fact that it has been in the US Top 100 since its release tells you all you need to know. It's combination of killer songwriting, involving atmospherics, approachable arrangements and universal themes of alienation, frustration, stress and dissatisfaction make it hard to resist. Other records may have been influential on some later prog rock (Yes, Genesis) but generally their relevance has been withing narrow confines. DSOTM has had an influence on music across a whole host of genres from indie to chill-out, metal to ambient, techno to post-rock. It's a no-brainer folks, Dark Side is it. |
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1835 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 11:32 | |
Whoa! Do not, whatever you do, forget the Italians! Bands like BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO, PFM, MUSEO ROSENBACH, IL BALLETTO DI BRONZO, NEW TROLLS, QUELLA VECCHIA LOCANDA, IL ROVESCIO DELLA MEDAGLIA, METAMORFOSI, LE ORME, CERVELLO, LATTE E MIELE and many more, both in the 1970s and later. I see your use of the word "predominantly", but I don't think it's correct. There are 219 entries in ProgArchives for Italian bands, and 231 entries for English bands (which has PATRICK MORAZ listed, but he's Swiss!). That is not "predominant" in my book. As for Prog Rock being "predominantly popular in Canterbury in the early 70s", that's just totally wrong.
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1835 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 11:43 | |
By the way, mikemon, you asked about books on Prog. See the following thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1642&a mp;KW=books
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Rob The Good
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 17 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 476 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 20:51 | |
Was Prog in its earliest form Jazz Fusion/Canterbury in the late 60s?
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And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
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BebieM
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 01 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 854 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 21:25 | |
@Fitzcarraldo: Also don't forget the Germans .... they had some brilliant bands and even their own subgenre (Krautrock). But overall I'd still say prog is mainly a british thing, the "big 5" (KC, Genesis, ELP, PF, Yes) are all british. That does not mean that there isn't good music in the other countries, but the prog's roots and their most famous bands do certainly come from the UK. |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 22:21 | |
Totally disagree with that. DSOTM was popular sure but the most influencial? Not likely since it came out long after other albums of the period were already done. I know a lot of people love Floyd here but this is just a bit over the top. Are you trying to say that looking back or that it was when it came out? Edited by Garion81 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: January 01 2005 at 22:33 | |
A hopeful second stringer? Hey they are 1-2 on my list of keyboard players but Tony never played a piece of muisc like Karn Evil 9 second impression on a piano ever. Edited by Garion81 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 09:54 | |
No - that's why
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1835 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 10:59 | |
I wasn't really forgetting the Germans (or French, or other nationalities), but mainly trying to point out firstly that the word "predominantly" is, in my opinion, not correct, and, secondly, that the Italians were also a big factor in Progressive Rock. Actually, if Prog Rock bands from Italy, Germany, France, USA etc. are also taken into consideration then they would, in total, outnumber the English bands, so "predominantly" would be even more inappropriate a word to use. Of course GENESIS, YES, PINK FLOYD, ELP and KING CRIMSON were the 'big ones', but I have more albums in my collection from non-English bands than English bands. By the way, whenever someone writes "England"/"English" in these forums, I always wonder whether they really mean "Britain"/"British". Very often, people - including the British - say "England" when they mean "Britain". In my experience, the vast majority of non-British people say "England" when they mean "Britain".
Edited by Fitzcarraldo |
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arcer
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 01 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1239 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 11:42 | |
Garion81 wrote: Totally disagree with that. DSOTM was popular sure but the most influencial? Not likely since it came out long after other albums of the period were already done. I know a lot of people love Floyd here but this is just a bit over the top. Are you trying to say that looking back or that it was when it came out? Yes, I am saying it's the most influential. And I don't think it's not over the top to say so. The existence of a raft of other prog albums previously in no way lessens the impact DSOTM had when it came out and the mark it continues to make on popular music. Popularity is just part of the equation. If you class DSOTM as prog then it is simply THE most popular prog album ever made - now well over 30 million copies sold - this knocks the entire careers of most other bands into a cocked hat. But sales alone do not an influence make - Nick Drake sold b***** all records on release but he has since become a major influence on a whole host of musicians. DSOTM, however, is both popular and namechecked with startling regularity by a host of bands as a major influence on their own music-making. Like I said, from prog to metal to ambient to techno, rock to indie DSOTM has had an enormous impact. It is that ongoing cultural relevance that makes it, in my opinion, the most influential record in not only prog, but also one of the key recordings in all of rock music - up there with Pet Sounds, Revolver/Sgt Peppers, Let it Bleed/Exile on Main Street, The Velvet Underground's first album, The Doors debut, Ziggy Stardust, Never Mind the Bollocks, Nevermind, Talking Book as one of the most important popular music recordings of the second half of the 20th century. I love Yes, Genesis, Rush et al but their impact on rock and pop music as a whole is significantly less than Floyd's. |
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Prog_Bassist
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 830 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 12:00 | |
Plus it's one of the most overrated records of all time . Don't get me wrong, it's a really good record, I like it and I like pink floyd, but I think it's been taken too far in terms of popularity. But that's just my opinion. I think the reason why it's so popular is because the world was full of potheads. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 17:17 | |
I think we're talking about influential, not about our favorites, IMO this are a group ofvthe most influential albums:
Now the second part, influential Bands in which sense and what parameters must we use?: Proto Prog:
The big 5:
Folk Prog
USA Prog:
Neo Prog:
Prog Metal:
Italian Prog:
Scandinavian Progressive:
Other countries:
And I'm missing a lot of influencial bands and points of view. Iván
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 17:44 | |
I don't want to start a mad rush, but how could you miss out the Soft Machine or the Mahavishnu Orchestra? Also PFM sound to me like they have a conglomerate sound - they wear their influences on their sleeves too clearly for me to consider them as influential as the bands they were obviously influenced by (Great band, tho'). Er... Great lists otherwise, Ivan!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 18:20 | |
Absolutely agree with you Cert, that's why I said "And I'm missing a lot of influencial bands and points of view", if anybody would name influential bands, would have to mention of course Mahavishnu as a fusion influence, some Kraut, etc, but it would takea lot of hours and pages. About PFM I absolutely disagree, all italian bands have clear influence from UK bands, PFM and Banco from ELP (They even signed with Manticore I believe) Le Orme from Yes and Genesis, but all have a clear Italian sound that makes the difference. After all they were the first generation of prog' bands outside UK and of course they received influence from the pioneers of the genre. Iván |
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threefates
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4215 |
Posted: January 02 2005 at 19:33 | |
Must be the perfect pitch.. cause I never heard a bad moment in Jerusalem... and the fact that it still puts chills down my back... when nothing Gabriel has ever sang did that to me... then I think you're wrong there too... |
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THIS IS ELP
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 11:49 | |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 12:19 | |
I don't know, but this sounds offensive to me, Tony Banks may not have the technicall skills of Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman (N°1 IMO), but he's a solid keyboard player very near to both in the top. While Keith was stabbing keyboards or playing with ribbons and Wakeman acting as a stand up comedian, Tony Banks was only worried about his music and giving 110% for his band, dsomething the other two never did, Wakeman and Emerson were always worried to shine over the rest of their bandmates while Tony was a part of a well oiled machine that was called early Genesis. Iván |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 16 2004 Location: Sao Tome and Pr Status: Offline Points: 5187 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 12:44 | |
Threefates is too close to the subject matter to be objective so it is pointless even entering into discussion with her about ELP.
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