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lazland View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

This says everything, but the double Pawel says more.. <span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Pawel is Paul in Polish. Sir Paul McCartney and His Holiness John Paul II are both Catholics (presumably), but not the same person. Not quite. </span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">On the subject of people posting reviews and ratings before the official release date: if the software allows, simply do not enable the rating/review section until let's say one week after the official release day. </span>


This would be difficult, as some of us get advance copies from acts or labels from time to time.
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

 
This would be difficult, as some of us get advance copies from acts or labels from time to time.

Right back atcha, sir: 

Most of us aren't able to listen to the whole album, and therefore to leave our ratings and reviews in good faith until after it's released. Does it seem fair to you that those who laid their hands on advance copies should be entitled to rate and review the album before others have a chance to do so? 

Besides, advance copies are proprietary content. They are sent to select individuals only (e.g. distributors) for market evaluation and other limited purposes. I'd argue that using advance copies for any other purpose may be construed as unethical at least. 

 
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Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

 
This would be difficult, as some of us get advance copies from acts or labels from time to time.

Right back atcha, sir: 

Most of us aren't able to listen to the whole album, and therefore to leave our ratings and reviews in good faith until after it's released. Does it seem fair to you that those who laid their hands on advance copies should be entitled to rate and review the album before others have a chance to do so? 

Besides, advance copies are proprietary content. They are sent to select individuals only (e.g. distributors) for market evaluation and other limited purposes. I'd argue that using advance copies for any other purpose may be construed as unethical at least. 

 


Many artists send promo copies to collabs and reviewers here on the site for the explicit purpose of us reviewing the albums ahead of time to promote their albums...so nothing at all unethical about that.
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Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Many artists send promo copies to collabs and reviewers here on the site for the explicit purpose of us reviewing the albums ahead of time to promote their albums...so nothing at all unethical about that.

"May be construed as unethical" does not mean it will necessarily be in all cases. In the circumstances you described it certainly will not.

As to whether Pink Floyd sent out promo copies to a bunch of PA collabs, listed above .. did they?  

More importantly, the particular discussion I contributed to was about removing some pre-release ratings, regardless of whether or not they were authorized by the content owners. I have argued that preventing such ratings  from being posted may be more convenient than "searching and destroying" them post factum. Since no-one seems to be in favor of this idea, I'll respectfully withdraw from the discussion. 
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Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

As to whether Pink Floyd sent out promo copies to a bunch of PA collabs, listed above .. did they?
LOL
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Is it just me or are these two Haken - The Mountain reviews very similar?
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1300431
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1169217



Edited by Rune2000 - November 05 2014 at 00:46
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I don't have a problem with band members and other people closely associated with the album, (such as the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family), reviewing their own albums, in fact I positively encourage it. Where I have a problem is when they don't declare their vested interest, for example in this review by the band's drummer he even talks about himself in the third-person.


Come on guys... don't insult our intelligence, be f**king honest in your self-reviews. 
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Originally posted by Rune2000 Rune2000 wrote:

Is it just me or are these two Haken - The Mountain reviews very similar?
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1300431
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1169217

<< Hope you will find this review helpful" ... and this one ... and that one as well Geek >>

  
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Originally posted by Rune2000 Rune2000 wrote:

Is it just me or are these two Haken - The Mountain reviews very similar?
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1300431
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1169217



One account is now banned and without any ratingsSmile 
Fearabsentia is Unitron. I dropped him a mail.
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't have a problem with band members and other people closely associated with the album, (such as the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family), reviewing their own albums, in fact I positively encourage it. Where I have a problem is when they don't declare their vested interest, for example in this review by the band's drummer he even talks about himself in the third-person.


Come on guys... don't insult our intelligence, be f**king honest in your self-reviews. 


I agree. That is pitiful.

I also find it a little perplexing that we always run into a murky twilight zone with this band. Now I know Colin from mails and speaking with him over the forum, and he is a really nice chap, but fact of the matter is that every time a new Corvus Stone album appears (same thing happened with Oceans5) we get a huge wave of rating manipulators and wham-bam-thank-you-mam reviews. These 5 along with the above mentioned drummer all signed up - did one review and they're done. 

Onlinewithandrea
Mat Cat
MRR
Guido
Cargonaharleynow

We also have another group that, granted, has written more than one review, but they're all of releases from Melodic Revolution RecordsErmm I could live with that just fine if the reviews felt like no nonsense music journalism, but they're all raving and drooling 5 star reviews.

In the end, I think this hurts the band's credibility.....and for what? A top slot on the archives?LOL
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lazland View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't have a problem with band members and other people closely associated with the album, (such as the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family), reviewing their own albums, in fact I positively encourage it. Where I have a problem is when they don't declare their vested interest, for example in this review by the band's drummer he even talks about himself in the third-person.


Come on guys... don't insult our intelligence, be f**king honest in your self-reviews. 



I agree. That is pitiful.

I also find it a little perplexing that we always run into a murky twilight zone with this band. Now I know Colin from mails and speaking with him over the forum, and he is a really nice chap, but fact of the matter is that every time a new Corvus Stone album appears (same thing happened with Oceans5) we get a huge wave of rating manipulators and wham-bam-thank-you-mam reviews. These 5 along with the above mentioned drummer all signed up - did one review and they're done.<span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;"> </span>

Onlinewithandrea
Mat Cat
MRR
Guido
Cargonaharleynow

We also have another group that, granted, has written more than one review, but they're all of releases from Melodic Revolution RecordsErmm I could live with that just fine if the reviews felt like no nonsense music journalism, but they're all raving and drooling 5 star reviews.

In the end, I think this hurts the band's credibility.....and for what? A top slot on the archives?LOL


I absolutely agree, David. In fact, I have not responded to a PM asking me to join in the merry Corvus Stone reviewing bandwagon this time (I did for the first one) because I have become very tired of the publicity circus surrounding it. Looking at the reviews and ratings here, you would think they had produced the finest prog album of all time. I am pretty sure that Colin would humbly confirm that is not the case.
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lazland View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

 
This would be difficult, as some of us get advance copies from acts or labels from time to time.


<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Right back atcha, sir: </span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
Most of us aren't able to listen to the whole album, and therefore to leave our ratings and reviews in good faith until after it's released. Does it seem fair to you that those who laid their hands on advance copies should be entitled to rate and review the album before others have a chance to do so? 

Besides, advance copies are proprietary content. They are sent to select individuals only (e.g. distributors) for market evaluation and other limited purposes. I'd argue that using advance copies for any other purpose may be construed as unethical at least. 

 




Mr Sir. The albums that are sent to me (a pretty rare occurrence these days, because I simply do not have the time, and tend now to review new albums that I have physically purchased on or after the release date) in advance are done with the specific intent of my releasing a review. I do, btw, always include a passage that the act sent me a copy on my reviews, so any hint of impropriety is knocked on the head.

The fact that you haven't had a chance to listen is, with respect, absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Reading through "Classic Rock Magazine Presents Prog" on any given month reveals pages of reviews written in advance of an album's release date - that's how the business works - magazines are written a month in advance and every record label wants their reviews to be published just as the album is released. Internet-based reviewers receive their promo copies at the same time so their reviews come out ahead of those published in print. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Advance reviews are "a good thing" for the label and the artist, all publicity is good publicity.

So internet-based reviews of advance promotional copies are fine. Here at the PA we (should) ask that reviewers make it clear that they have received an advance copy of the album to ensure that any review published before the release date is legitimate. We cannot condone reviews based upon leaked album and, moreover, we cannot be seen to be permitting such behaviour, nor should we encourage people to review/rate albums that they have never heard. What little reputation we have left we'd like to preserve. If we are told by the reviewer that the review is based on a legitimate advance promo copy then that's fine by us. We should put that "clause" in the T's&C's and review guidelines so that everyone is aware of that.

However, we have the "rating-only" option, and it is feasible that someone could simply leave a rating based on an advanced copy of the album without writing a review. Whether this is an ethical practice is a matter of personal opinion, and I for one think its a bit lazy to say the least. While reviewers are under no obligation to write a review if a label or artist sends them a freebie, just leaving a rating is a cop-out. Since there is no written confirmation that the rating was based on a legitimate advance copy automatic deletion of ratings-only prior to official release date should be the default. No "ifs nor buts", no arguments, just deletion.
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Wow, I can't believe we are still arguing about this.  There's nothing wrong with advance reviews.  In fact, our little site will thrive because of them.  In perspective, does it really matter in the expanse of the cosmos in which we spin whether or not an album is rated correctly?  There is also nothing wrong with the ratings on the new Corvus Stone, though I, too, have not answered the message containing the promo that was sent to me.  I disliked the first one.
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't have a problem with band members and other people closely associated with the album, (such as the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family), reviewing their own albums, in fact I positively encourage it. Where I have a problem is when they don't declare their vested interest, for example in this review by the band's drummer he even talks about himself in the third-person.

 

Come on guys... don't insult our intelligence, be f**king honest in your self-reviews. 



I agree. That is pitiful.

I also find it a little perplexing that we always run into a murky twilight zone with this band. Now I know Colin from mails and speaking with him over the forum, and he is a really nice chap, but fact of the matter is that every time a new Corvus Stone album appears (same thing happened with Oceans5) we get a huge wave of rating manipulators and wham-bam-thank-you-mam reviews. These 5 along with the above mentioned drummer all signed up - did one review and they're done.<span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;"> </span>

Onlinewithandrea
Mat Cat
MRR
Guido
Cargonaharleynow

We also have another group that, granted, has written more than one review, but they're all of releases from Melodic Revolution RecordsErmm I could live with that just fine if the reviews felt like no nonsense music journalism, but they're all raving and drooling 5 star reviews.

In the end, I think this hurts the band's credibility.....and for what? A top slot on the archives?LOL


I absolutely agree, David. In fact, I have not responded to a PM asking me to join in the merry Corvus Stone reviewing bandwagon this time (I did for the first one) because I have become very tired of the publicity circus surrounding it. Looking at the reviews and ratings here, you would think they had produced the finest prog album of all time. I am pretty sure that Colin would humbly confirm that is not the case.
 
Hello Lazland, Guldbamsen and Dean,
 

I understand exactly why you would say this, I understand where you are coming from.

Progarchives is a professional site. These people are amateurs, they don’t understand or realize that Progarchives is a highly respected and professional site. I know that the core band members are embarrassed by one or two things that have happened here. They really want professional insightful feedback/critique about the album, in fact they have asked many collabs here on this site and other respectable reviewers elsewhere to review their new album. The band on their facebook page posted that they would appreciate anyone who likes the album to join ProgArchives and rate the album however they certainly didn’t expect this would happen.

It’s like every other site that you just join, most sites are a joke and some/most enthusiastic people don’t understand the difference. i.e. most people really believe that they are being effective by on fb etc. which is completely redundant while not knowing or understanding the difference here. They mean no malice, it’s very clear they are amateurs and these are real people who like the album.  

You can clearly see these are amateurs, very naïve. Clearly there’s a downside to it as no band can control a drummer but they need him. In his case he is just happy to be part now of the band while on the previous album he did not collaborate on many tracks.  This is not a con, it’s obvious, and some use the internet as social network.

I joke a lot here on the forum but can distinguish the difference between PA forum and the serious side of it inc. the  purpose on the reviews.

Again I must emphasize that some of these things written inside the reviews, one can clearly see it is not calculative or professional, they are just fans of the album, normal people.

Hugs, many thanks and friendly regards xxx Sonia


Edited by Kati - November 05 2014 at 21:20
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lazland View Drop Down
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Thanks Sonia. I know that these people mean no malice, but it can get pretty annoying, though!

I have exercised my right not to review. I do not get paid for this, after all. I might, though, revisit my decision, certainly given that I am yet to ask the wife for my two year trip to Mozambique......
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Thanks Sonia. I know that these people mean no malice, but it can get pretty annoying, though!

I have exercised my right not to review. I do not get paid for this, after all. I might, though, revisit my decision, certainly given that I am yet to ask the wife for my two year trip to Mozambique......
 
hahaha!!! Laughing at your ending comment, Lazland  (big grin) Big smile gnack gnack gnack hahahaha!!!! You have every right to do what you believe, I understand this and you had every right to believe the above too. It's not the band's fault tho' also I cannot condemn the new hyper happy people who like the album, they obviously clueless in what entitles in writing a review Confused. You can clearly see and I think it's too obvious that these a nice people who really meant well, real people not fake accounts, but unfortunate hahahaha didn't do a good job at it in helping hahaha quite the contrary hahaha!!! You gotta love them tho' even if right now they are a pain in the *ss LOL hugs Hugxxxx
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Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Rune2000 Rune2000 wrote:

Is it just me or are these two Haken - The Mountain reviews very similar?
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1300431
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1169217



One account is now banned and without any ratingsSmile 
Fearabsentia is Unitron. I dropped him a mail.

I'm sorry about that, I should have posted asking for my old account to be deleted. Thanks for deleting it Smile
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MRR are not naive or amateur.


As I said, there is nothing wrong with band members, the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family reviewing an album. All I ask is that they are honest with us. 
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Kati View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

MRR are not naive or amateur.


As I said, there is nothing wrong with band members, the recording engineer, roadie, groupie or friends and family reviewing an album. All I ask is that they are honest with us. 
 
Aww Dean but in terms of MMR he was honest, he did mention that he was the president of the record label.
 
:( hugs always Hug
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