I have a question |
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chorus of one
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 299 |
Topic: I have a question Posted: January 14 2005 at 00:37 |
Why are so many of you guys obsessed with which bands are and aren't on this site?
Progarchives is a wonderful resource for discovering new bands, but why get so up in arms when one you already know is or isn't included? Does it really matter? Edited by chorus of one |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 00:46 |
Get rid of the borderline crap, and get some focus
back. This site in my mind should be as open-minded as New Gibralter Encyclopedia, but separate the best progressive rock from the junk(pooh!). And give the youngsters a chance to have a global view of only the best from the past and whats good in the new scene. There are those who feel Americas best output is to AOR and Germany was but a fringe element outside of when fair german bands tried to copy the style coming from england. --------------- I am the intruder Edited by DallasBryan |
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chorus of one
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 299 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 00:55 |
Did that have anything to do with my question? |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 02:51 |
Chorus.. I agree. To be frank its hard enough to keep coming up with worthwhile and interesting threads anyway. There is only so many times you can ask who is the best bass player/drummer/guitarist etc, or whether or not Radiohead is prog !!! Or indeed whether ELO should be in the archives.. Progarchives is a brilliant resource. I think its pretty comprehensive, and sometimes a few bands may get overlooked. If anyone feels they are being dealt a terrible injustice by a band they like being left out, send a PM to the admin group and calmly argue your case for their inclusion. Thats my suggestion. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 03:27 |
Of course not - it was from the master of whizzing off at a tangent |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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James Lee
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 03:47 |
I'm in Cof1's corner...Who really thinks inclusion on Progarchives makes a band any better or worse...or really, any more or less 'prog'? Essentially the site is a resource for either people who already know what they mean by 'prog', or for complete newcomers...either way, a dozen or so bands on the 'borderline' isn't going to hurt anyone. Everyone responsible for the site has done an exceptional job covering the genre, IMAO. |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12801 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 07:30 |
I'm about 3/4 the way with you DB, but there is point some boundaries have to be set - otherwise all music would most misleadingly be called progressive rock. So when I protest about inclusion of XY or Z (have you caught this band: Cajun Punk Jazz String Quartet all aged 80 or more), means that either they have done something musically that does noteet my somewhat (IMHO) liberal definitions - and/or were not categorised as prog when they first appeared on the scene - hence me want some selectively when it comes to Pink Floyd or Rush. However, I'm less likely to go do-alley than once I might had - if somebody thinks their electronica band is prog let them, but don't count me in on that opinion and expect a word or two, to warn the unsuspecting that such views are not the whole of the Progarchive's concensus on the matter. |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:11 |
I guess I just dont get it! I dont see how you can take
a base of say Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, ELP and Jethro Tull and say oh' Magma, Soft Machine, etc. that progressive rock, this is more progressive psychedelic jazz. Youre argument seems to stem from the so called fact that english progressive rock is the measuring tool and all must be measured from there. Its OK to go forward down a jazz fusion or symphonic path but if you lose the vocals and introduce electronics as the focal point it becomes electronica. I beg to differ! Though you accept Italian 70s progressive rock(because it caters to your idea) you omit the works of other progressive electronic rockers work that was going on in continental europe. This affectively gives england the title of progressive rock know it alls. I on the other hand see progressive rock after the experimental psychedelic stage being almost solely an english entity from birth 1967ish to 1975, then the shop basically got shut down, although Peter Gabriel -3, Art of Noise - whose afraid of..., and Yes 90125 slipped through the cracks in the early 80s. During the mid 70s bands from the US, Greece, Sweden, Holland, France, Spain, Ireland and even Japan affected their youth cultures with progressive rock whatever the instrumentation. Germany on the other hand after their experimental stage(1969 -1974) was taking the atmospheres, and soundscapes from bands like Pink Floyd and Genesis and evolving these ideas to a new level. Progressive rock from 1976 to the mid 80s was in the hands of the Germans and it evolved from its previous state!!! By denying this and calling it electronica you affectively capture english progressive rock as the cornerstone to all new progressive rock and limit its advancing. Canterbury style offshoots are OK and any one wishing to prevert the original style to progressive metal or avant jazz rock fusion is acceptable. England does not own the term "progressive rock". You accept Tangerine Dream as progressive rock but the great progressive electronic music that sprouted up around it becomes fringe instead of a focal point. I find this as a narrow minded imperialist viewpoint! No you dont have to stretch the boundaries to include Robert Rich - Gaudi, or Steve Roach stuff, that is electronica and new age. But as long as the spirit was alive and discernable it should be recognized. Good Day! |
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sigod
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2004 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2779 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:28 |
Why do I get the feeling that the English (or In my time here, I've seen a lot of English/America bashing but none of it has centred on any perceived ownership of the genre. I've said it before and it looks as though I'll have to say it again, there is only good music or bad music and everything else is just semantics. That said, I tend to agree with you in that the There is a lot of 'You' and 'I' mentioned in your post and I can almost see the fingers being pointed. Please, please don't do this Please don't.
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:44 |
point taken sigod and I am dropping it!!!
I just felt that there is a ownership issue and it leaves us going over the same old period and new bands trying to duplicate the same old period and not taking in the growth after the first 8 years. I consider progressive rock as mostly a dead entity and its elements showing up on occasions in many styles of music. I think the crown should be passed to the germans and then maybe we could revive progressive music with a blend of new age, progressive metal and AOR. --------- he stumbles back to his corner a beaten champ |
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joniox
Forum Groupie Joined: January 09 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:47 |
There should be randomcoolbandsthatprogfansthinkarecool.com
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I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat...
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joniox
Forum Groupie Joined: January 09 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:47 |
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I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat...
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sigod
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2004 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2779 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:51 |
You are a good man Dallas |
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
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sigod
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 17 2004 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2779 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 11:52 |
You mean there isn't???? |
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 28 2004 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 814 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 12:30 |
There is a thread in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=754&am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;PN=1 about which bands could be added. It was started by MAX. There is also in Progarchives a form http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_PRO GARCHIVES.asp to be filled by the readers about suggestions for bands/artists to be included in this website. I think that the Administrators Group have open minds to opinions. If not, they simply didn`t start this thread in the Forums and they could simply delete that form in Progarchives. They also could not put attention in the Polls done by Forum Readers about which bands could be included. The Poll about Traffic, for example, worked very well, because Traffic was added when the majority of the people that answered to that Poll considered that Traffic should be included. It is good to make Polls, even if the opinion of the majority of the readers is against other opinions (for example, the Poll about E.L.O. started by me; I consider E.L.O. as Progressive, but if the majority of the readers don`t think so, E.L.O. is not included in this website , and I`m not angry about it ). I recognize the very good job done in this website by the Administrators Group. Edited by Guillermo |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 14:56 |
Wise words Guillermo! Many of us actually enjoy discussing whether or not certain bands should or should not be here. The discussions often digress and develop into interesting dialogues. The present thread on Pat Metheny for example has some good stuff between Peter and Richard. Like prog itself, the site needs to continue to develop, and such threads are just one of the many ways it does so.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 15:51 |
Here we go again round and round the roseberry bush the old what is / isn't prog argument. I think that with over 1,400 bands represented on the site and the opportunity to bring up any topic you like via the forums whether or not it is related to prog or even music is good enough for me and my dogs, cat and the squuriels who live in my back yard.
Edited by Vibrationbaby |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 16:16 |
It's one of the most common arguments because it's a discussion people LIKE to have. And why not? If I think that Beyonce is prog, then I'm entitled to think that - and everyone is entitled to throw large, heavy and pointed objects in my direction for saying so. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 16:46 |
Beyonce has done some great prog tracks, lets get her on here! What do you think Vibe? (had to edit the post, I though beyonce was a group!) Edited by Easy Livin |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: January 14 2005 at 16:51 |
I like the two points on her chest. Those are very Prog!
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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