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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 21 2005 at 04:59
I'm going to invite the wrath of many people by saying this, but through the induction of Radiohead into the archives we have hit a really low watershed. It seems now that a band can get it if it's a rock band that "progresses".

Therefore, at first I disagreed, but now I think it's time we gave Queen a second chance. A Night at the Opera was certainly progressive, and now that it has been proven that a band can get in by simply being progressive, then there's hope for them yet!
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 05:18

Queen were a fusion of different genres, held together with camp pomposity and a quirky sense of humour..

They combined glam with jazz, pop, rock, blues and all manner of musical styles. They were a good band, for a while at least. About once every five years I'll dig out Queen II or Night at the opera, play them and smile. They were talented and innovative, and you have to admit that they were progressive and they were a rock band. Therefore logically they were a progressive rock band. They exhibited some prog cliches, even. The English eccentricty that came out of some of their songs (Lazing on a Sunday afternoon) for example, the occasional world music influences (Prophets song & Mustapha), the fantasy imagery (Ogre battle & Seven Seas of Rhye)

I would have difficulty arguing against them being in the archives. To be honset they are not among my favourite bands. They're a little too camp for me, and I HATE Brian Mays guitar sound, but if the consensus is that they are prog I wouldn't contest the decision.

I just wouldn't admit to my cool friends that Queen belong to my favourite genre. They already suspect and I have to keep trying to pursuade them otherwise..
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 05:37
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Queen were a fusion of different genres, held together with camp pomposity and a quirky sense of humour..

 

Sounds like a good definition of early progressive rock........................ however, as I've said before, I believe it is daft to bring a band in, when the majority of a band's recording catalogue isn't prog. However, Maani & Co must seriously consider a section within the reviews, that allows for the bands with the odd prog album, e.g

Spooky Tooth/Pierre Henry: Ceremony

Wishbone Ash: Argus and Pilgrimage

(and let the list commence  - with justifications for inclusion)

 

 

 
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 05:45
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Queen were a fusion of different genres, held together with camp pomposity and a quirky sense of humour..

 

Sounds like a good definition of early progressive rock........................ however, as I've said before, I believe it is daft to bring a band in, when the majority of a band's recording catalogue isn't prog. However, Maani & Co must seriously consider a section within the reviews, that allows for the bands with the odd prog album, e.g

Spooky Tooth/Pierre Henry: Ceremony

Wishbone Ash: Argus and Pilgrimage

(and let the list commence  - with justifications for inclusion)

I agree. That sounds like the best compromise to me. A seperate section in the archives for artists with only some prog credentials. I would welcome that.

 

 

 
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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Points: 476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 19:20
Roxy Music have been deservedly added because they were at the forefront of the ART ROCK movement in the early 70s. Radiohead have been added because they apparently produce music that progresses. I shall not argue.

Queen, like you say, fused different styles and genres. They are certainly Art Rock, and progressive. I think they deserve a second look. There are bands such as Styx & Talk Talk that are in the archives, and the majority of their material isn't necessarily Prog.
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Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Points: 3525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 19:39

LOL, Blacksword and I agree on many things...but this isn't one of them.

I LOVE Brian May's guitar sound!

And for about the same period that Genesis was releasing their truly prog albums, Queen was also quite arguable prog by nature. I challenge anyone to listen to their first three or four albums and not find prog rock elements in abundance! Queen II, especially, seems to me to be almost stereotypically 70s prog, with the fantasy imagery and extended narrative pieces.

Of course, some of their latter-day releases are laughable...but how many 70s artists (even the ones with much less taste-defying tendencies) aged well? Once the 80s set in, it was either go ridiculously big or go underground, and Queen was not a band that could have flourished as a cult favorite.

But as with any band (I won't name names- that's just asking for trouble), I don't really care if they're in the database or not.

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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Points: 476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 19:47
It's surprising actually, how desperate people are to get their favourite bands into the archives. That's how this whole controversy started!
And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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Pety View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:13
I think it would be a good idea to give Queen a chance on this site. Their first five albums are definitely prog and are also popular and influential, and that should provoke some interesting debate in the review section...
songs like My Fairy King, March of the Black Queen, Prophet Song, Rhapsody, are prog rock gems and are easily accesible and they could motivate the listener to explore prog rock further.

and I LOVE Brian May's guitar sound and I love the way he plays as well-technically perfect melodic solos and fills, always with an idea, each note being just in the right place and played the right way:)
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Points: 3525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:14
Welcome to Pety! I think you may be the first Slovakian on the forum.
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Points: 2234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:18

QUEEN PART 2: Brian May Strikes Back
The Worthless Recluse
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Points: 3525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:23
LOL, does that mean that Queen pt. 3 will be "Return of the Fredi"?
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Pety View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:25
Thanks James Lee:)
It would be great for me to see a Slovak or a Czech band in the review section. I noticed a discussion called "East European prog" here and was glad to find out that a few people around here(not from post communist countries) know some of our prog bands.
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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Points: 476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:31
Welcome Pety!
It's great having someone from Slovakia!
Unfortunately I'm quite ignorant of Eastern European music, but would you be able to suggest a place to start?
And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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Pety View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:40
Thanks Rob!
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2914&P N=6

this was the discussion about Eastern European Prog, this should be a good place to start. Personally, my favourite Czech and Slovak prog artists are Dezo Ursiny, Fermata, M-Efekt, Prazsky Vyber and Flamengo. I'm unfortunately ignorant of the music scenes of other eastern european countries.

and this is the link to a discussion about Queen, I think it's worth reading:)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2798&K W=queen
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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Points: 476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2005 at 20:46
Thanks! I'll be sure to check them out!
And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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maani View Drop Down
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Points: 2632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2005 at 00:02

All:

Sorry.  We've been down this road before.  Although some or much of Night at the Opera and Day at the Races might legitimately be classified as "prog," this does not represent enough of the group's output to add them to the site.  And, no, although Sheer Heart Attack arguably had some "prog sensibilities," it is not "prog."  Nor, by any means, are their first two albums, despite attempts to classify them that way.  However, even if all five albums were prog, this is still not the majority, much less the vast majority, of their output.

Feel free to keep making your case.  But this one has been rejected a number of times, and a change in the webmasters' decision is highly unlikely.

Peace.
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penguindf12 View Drop Down
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Points: 831 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2005 at 00:04
I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally don't care anymore who gets in and who doesn't, as long as this site doesn't shut down from all the stupid quibbling and no bands are deleted.
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starofsirius View Drop Down
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Points: 157 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2005 at 00:06

I love Queen to death and yeah a lot of their stuff is quite prog, I just don't think they have enough to be on this site.
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tuxon View Drop Down
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Points: 5502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2005 at 15:11

Why is Queen prog according to Garp.

 

1. Queen never repeated themselves, every album has a different aproach, this makes them difficult to catagorise, though on each album their distinct sound and style would catagorise them as Art-rock in my book

2. Their music has a strong sympho-sound to it (May's guitar, and Freddie's distinctive piano play)

3. The structure of their songs, it has a verse-chorus-verse build -up but the music changes througout the song. evolving and revolving to and from the initial structure.

4. they progressed through their album output, see next list.

Queen I; central musical angle: Led Zepp pastiche, with Gospelmusic influences

              prog, semi-prog: My Fairy King, Greaty King Rat, Liar, Jesus, Seven Seas Of Rhye, Son & Daughter.

Queen II; central musical angle: prog-glitterrock, with numeral progsongs.

                prog, semi-prog: The entire album is progressive, with a bombastic heavy sympho sound.

Sheer Heart-attack; central musical angle: mod/glitter/glamrock

                prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities, Brighton Rock, Now I'm Here, Lily Of The Valley, In The Lap Of The God's etc.

A Night At The Opera: central musical angle: rock with operatic tendencies.

                prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. Bohemian Rapsody, The Prophet Song, Seaside rendez-vous, Love Of My Life.

A Day At The Races; central musical angle: rock with classical tendensies.

                prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. You take my breath away, Teo Torriate, White Man, Somebody To Love, Good old Fashioned Loverboy, Drowse

News Of The World; central musical angle: Blues rock

               prog, semi-prog: It's late, we are the champions, spread your wings, sleeping on the sidewalk.

Jazz; central musical angle. rock with remote Jazz influences

              prog, semi-prog: not much, just a little prog in the structure of the songs.

the Game; central musical angle. rock and Roll

             prog, semi-prog: not much, just a little prog in the structure of the songs.

Flash; central musical angle. space rock

           prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. Flash, The Hero, Football Fight

Hot Space; central musical angle. R&B, dance

          prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. Las Palabras De Amor, Back Chat, Staying Power, Life Is Real.

the Works; central musical angle. contemporary rock/rock and roll.

           prog, semi-prog: most songs have progsensibilities, it's A Hard Life. Keep Passing The Open windows, radio GaGa, Machines.

A Kind Of magic; central musical angle: Heavy rock, with classical influences

           prog, semi-prog: most songs have progsensibilities, One Vision, A Kind Of Magic, Who wants to live forever, Princes Of The Universe.

Miracle; central musical angle: Hard rock

           prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. The Miracle, Invisible Man, Rain Must Fall, Was It All Worth It.

Innuendo; central musical angle: Heavy rock, with classical influences

          prog, semi-prog: The entire album has progsensibilities. Innuendo, Bijou, The Show Must Go On, I'm Going Slightly Mad, Delilah.

Made In Heaven;  don't know the album well enough to comment. It's quite good though

 

  
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JrKASperov View Drop Down
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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2005 at 15:16
Would everyone stop trying to get popbands or classicrock bands in here?

I have an idea for this site: if there are big vague spots whether a band is prog, let's kick it out.





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