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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:18
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

In the classic days no album would go on for more than 50 minutes


if only that was true of this one.
 
OK you got me immediately! Disc one is fantastic and then you come to disc two!!!!!! What a bloody racket.
I concede, no album goes on too long except...
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Points: 12799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:30

Did I miss something, i.e wrt to the physical capabilities of different formats.

78rpm discs were on average 3 minutes aside. LPs with microgrove technology, maximum 30 minutes per side (Todd Rundgren's Inititiation did just break this limit, but with a warning on the LP sleeve in the context: "tape record this album asap, because the microgroving is so fine it was prone to damage from most stylli". Audiophiles claim that more than 15 minutes aside for an LP means clipped audio spectra. WRT CD format the former chairman of Sony Electronics was asked how long a CD should be, and replied capable of taking the full Beethoven 9th Symphony (just think how you would have bought this on 78rpm disc!), hence the original 74 minutes which has been subsequently stretched out to just under 80 minutes.

 
Hence 78rpm records set the standard for singles at around 3 minutes (from the Edwardian period), with LPs the longer pieces (from around the early 50's in the US). In the meanwhile during the years of 78s, popular musicians were playing long piece live - our grandparents (if they could afford a gramophone!) just put up the then current technology on record. I was shocked when I discovered a Benny Goodman recording of 1938 had a tune lasting over 15 minutes - recorded onto a yard wide master according to the eventual CD notes, but was not available to the public on record until over 3 decades later.
 
Now we have technology that can capture pieces up to 80 minutes (and who knows what mp3 and DVD technology will permit the recorded music fan), we have greater chance to discover whether a tune and/or album outstays its welcome -  although when we would hope for a long set if we saw the musicians live.
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Points: 64353 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:41
When I was collecting Zeppelin 'private releases' back in the days when they came on two vinyl discs in a nice gatefold cover, it was always an issue of when the first side of the original tape would end. Plus, Zep would play a 20-minute version of 'Dazed' or a 14-minute 'No Quater' making the task of timing the edits that much more tricky. Ahh, the good old days...
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 06:38
Its all perception. OSI's Free is only 48 minutes but feels like 480 minutes and is clearly too long, where as Pain Of Salvations The Perfect Element is 75 minutes but feels like 50 and I almost find myself wanting it to be longer. Some of you can complain that there is a skip button on CD players but we shouldnt really have to skip songs in the first place as albums should be heard as a whole.  
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Points: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 06:47
I have the exact same feeling with some albums (and hey, I like tangerine dreams "zeit" so it isn't general)

Bachdenkel's "lemmings" for example.. (Great album btw)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 09:08
I could say that most Rush albums are around 40 minutes too long - or would that be inflammatory? (Just checking)
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 09:23
I don't care how long an album is in playtime, as long as it doesn't feel like it's overdone and too long.

And both album's that you mention, Oceansize's "Effloresce" and TOOL's "Lateralus" both have this quality that the albums are a bit of a trip the listener undergoes. Perhaps because both feature these eerie interlude songs in which, in Oceansize's case, the listener has a few minutes to relax. Wink

The only problem I have with lengthy CDs is when they include one big track of 50-80 minutes and they place it on the CD as one track. I sometimes feel the urge to skip bits but I just can't... and I'm too lazy to fastforward Wink
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 10:00
Focus III is much too long for it to be enjoyable all the way through.
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Points: 657 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 10:08
Originally posted by Witchwoodhermit Witchwoodhermit wrote:

I know exactly what you mean. Being a child of the seventies, I'm used to a single album being 45 - 50 minutes long, max! I guess my head is used to this.
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Points: 6336 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 13:20
Originally posted by Glueman Glueman wrote:

No album goes on too long. Given that I don't accept the term "filler" - something I might find a "throwaway" may be someone else's favourite. The longer the better for me. In fact, anything less than 50 minutes is a blatant rip-off unless it's priced at a budget cost. I expect at least 60 mins nowadays.
Has no one ever heard of the "stop" button or the "next track" button?

You know, putting money in the discusion along with art is never a wise thing to do, only people who think around money do it. Art can´t be compared or messured (ar at least shouldnt be) with money. Saying you think an album under 50 minutes with the same price than one from at least 60 is a rip off implys that you dont really care for quality but quantity. It seems you prefer,  a band that writes 45 minutes of great material and they add 15 minutes of just so so material, than to have a 45 minutes long masterpiece... because you pay less, or have a "fair" price. Thats like buying big paintings, just because they occupy more space than little ones, even if they arent betterConfused
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Points: 4981 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 13:22
I prefer my albums between 35-45 minutes.  Any more, and I find myself getting bored, because it's hard to sustain an idea coherently for much more than 45 minutes.
 
Exception: CAN's Tago Mago, my all time favorite album, a double album around 70 minutes in length total.
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Points: 4455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 13:32
"Tales from Topographic Oceans" - waaaaayyy to long.  And if you think the album was too long you should tried sitting through the live concert.
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Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 13:34
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

"Tales from Topographic Oceans" - waaaaayyy to long.  And if you think the album was too long you should tried sitting through the live concert.
 
DISAGREE!
TFTO is around 80 minutes of sheer progressive beauty Approve
I mostly listen to it when i'm bored, and it does help.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 13:51
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Originally posted by Glueman Glueman wrote:

No album goes on too long. Given that I don't accept the term "filler" - something I might find a "throwaway" may be someone else's favourite. The longer the better for me. In fact, anything less than 50 minutes is a blatant rip-off unless it's priced at a budget cost. I expect at least 60 mins nowadays.
Has no one ever heard of the "stop" button or the "next track" button?

You know, putting money in the discusion along with art is never a wise thing to do, only people who think around money do it. Art can´t be compared or messured (ar at least shouldnt be) with money. Saying you think an album under 50 minutes with the same price than one from at least 60 is a rip off implys that you dont really care for quality but quantity. It seems you prefer,  a band that writes 45 minutes of great material and they add 15 minutes of just so so material, than to have a 45 minutes long masterpiece... because you pay less, or have a "fair" price. Thats like buying big paintings, just because they occupy more space than little ones, even if they arent betterConfused
 
 

It does not imply that! If you choose to mis-interpret my post then that's your problem.

 

The quality of a piece is judged by the listener. It's up to them to decide what proportion of an album they actually like. No two people are going to view a record the same way.

 

Records were 25-45 minutes long due to the constraints of vinyl. There is no excuse to put out a short album nowadays. If an artist cannot fill 60 minutes of quality music, for the sake of argument, per year, then that says more about their lack of creativity than anything else. Other than re-issued pieces with bonus tracks, I do not accept that anyone adds sub-par material just to pad out a release. It’s an extreme insult to the artist to presume that those few tracks that you may not like are to be considered “filler”. There is NO such thing as filler. And if a person cannot sit through 60 minutes + of an artist then that also says as much about attention deficit as it does the quality of the material, which is, again, in the ear of the beholder.

 

And it’s not juxtaposing art and money. When a product is marketed it should be priced according to various criteria – one of which is value for money. To sell two records for the same price – one of which is 30 minutes and one of which is 79 minutes is a blatant rip-off.

 

 

And the words are spelt "MEASURED" and IMPLIES"!
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Points: 627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 14:48
   The fact of the matter is most people do not sit still for 60 minutes at a time. So to appreciate a long 'concept' album of extended legth is not usually possible because without listening to it in one sitting you are missing the intended purpose of the piece. Most people like a well crafted song of three to ten minutes that exhibits the quality of an artist that  we enjoy.
   The misnomer about an artist being more 'artistic' by their ability to write long often ponderous pieces of music is false. It takes a great deal of skill to write a great three to four minute song which expresses your ideas and talent.
    I believe the era of long 40-50-60 minute pieces is drawing to a close.
A great shorter song can say as much, is more satisfying and concise and can be listened to with  greater attention and then you can focus on other things in life which need attention as well. If the song is good you will want to come back to it again and again and still have time to indulge in life's rich pageant.
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Points: 171 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 14:55
Originally posted by Abstrakt Abstrakt wrote:

Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

"Tales from Topographic Oceans" - waaaaayyy to long.  And if you think the album was too long you should tried sitting through the live concert.
 
DISAGREE!
TFTO is around 80 minutes of sheer progressive beauty Approve
I mostly listen to it when i'm bored, and it does help.
 
IT'S 80 MINUTES OF PURE HAPPINESSBig%20smile!!!!!!!!
I like Tormato, so shoot me! Every person in the world can't think the same.
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Points: 974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 14:57
Depends on the album. If I don't like an album, then ten minutes is too long!
Some people complain about The Flower Kings' albums.
I am glad they are so long - I love every minute of them! Clap
 
Good music is good music. No matter how long the album lasts.
Rush's Hemispheres is a shortish album, but it's wonderful.
Genesis's The Lamb is a double, yet that too is wonderful.
 
All personal taste once again. Wink
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Points: 974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 15:01
Originally posted by Tormato Tormato wrote:

Originally posted by Abstrakt Abstrakt wrote:

Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

"Tales from Topographic Oceans" - waaaaayyy to long.  And if you think the album was too long you should tried sitting through the live concert.
 
DISAGREE!
TFTO is around 80 minutes of sheer progressive beauty Approve
I mostly listen to it when i'm bored, and it does help.
 
IT'S 80 MINUTES OF PURE HAPPINESSBig%20smile!!!!!!!!
 
I agree totally!
A wonderful album, long, yet interesting all the way through! Clap
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Points: 15535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 15:23
Albums are never too long at all. I can listen to the one Mars Volta album I have and the one Godspeed You! Black Emperor album without realising or caring how long it has been since I got up last.
In fact I probably get bored of shorter albums more quickly than longer albums. (I rarely if ever get bored of anything that is music).
 Longer albums have more music to grace the listeners ears.
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Points: 304 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 15:49
It truly depends on the album. I know of double-albums that I could listen to for an entire day, and I know double-albums that I wish had been cut. Simply put, if the album works as a whole, then it works - no matter what the length is.
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