Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: the peak year of a musician
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedthe peak year of a musician

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
greenback View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3300
Direct Link To This Post Topic: the peak year of a musician
    Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:37
everybody reaches a performance peak in his life.
some are hard to find when, but others are easy.
which musician comes to your mind, what instrument and what year?
 
phil collins - drums - 1976
[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
Back to Top
andu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3089
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:45
This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
 
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
"PA's own GI Joe!"

Back to Top
SirPsycho388 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 09 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 689
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:46
bill bruford - drums - 1974
Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10790
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:19
Frank Zappa (guitar and compostionally IMO) - 1972-1975
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7559
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:48
Originally posted by andu

This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
 
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
 
That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.
 
Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.
 
*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
fuxi View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:07
Originally posted by SirPsycho388

bill bruford - drums - 1974


'74? Maybe! But he definitely peaked again in 2001, with THE SOUND OF SURPRISE, followed by the amazing live album FOOTLOOSE AND FANCY FREE!
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10790
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:28
for me, jazz muscians get better with time all the way until they die (or quit/switch styles)
Back to Top
Rocktopus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4202
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:48
I'm no musician, so its just based on tastes and instinct:

- Simon House / violin - 70 (High Tide)
- Teddy Lasry / flute (sax) - 70 (Magma)
- Jaki Liebezeit / drums - 72 (Can)
- Didier Malherbe / saxes, flute - 74 (Gong)
- Pierre Moerlen / drums, percussion - 74 (Gong)
- Michi Dei Rossi / drums, percussion - 74 (Le Orme)
- Giulio Capiozzo / drums, percussion -  74 (Area)
- Patrick Gauthier / keyboards - 78 (Weidorje/Heldon)


Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15565
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:53
Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10790
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:04

^ ^ ^ i mentioned Zappa, so i guess ill explain

in the 60's, Zappa was doing extremely experimental things with the original Mothers' lineups. in '69 Zappa began fully realizing his interest in melding jazz and rock (waaayyy before most jazz-rock classic bands and artists even thought about it, except maybe Miles Davis) and recorded Hot Rats, one of his most popular and celebrated works. pretty much from there he did a lot of jazz-rock/fusion mixed with rock, classical, and funk. in 72 he recorded Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo, which are fusion classics and praised on this site. As a guitarist he was developing into a monster and his improvs were so unique. He then formed the next installment of the Mothers which had great guys like George Duke, Napoleon Murphy Brock and Ruth Underwood (who went back as far as some of the early Mothers' albums like Uncle Meat) the albums that came out between 72 and 75/76 are among his freshest and exquisite albums he ever released, some being some of the greatest jazz-rock albums (and he came from the rock/avant-guarde side of music)
Back to Top
Rocktopus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4202
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:11
Originally posted by Easy Livin

Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.


You're right, but I don't know what to write. Except that the albums they contributed on those specific years contains my favorite playing by all of them. I feel that its their peaks, but don' t really have the language to tell you why.


Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Online Status: Online
Posts: 47850
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:15
Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by andu

on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.

 

That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.

 

Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.

 

*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink



I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.





Edited by Atavachron - May 15 2007 at 05:46
Back to Top
fuxi View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:20
Originally posted by Easy Livin



Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.


Well, as far as Bruford is concerned: the things he does on those 2001 albums are just as exciting as anything he did with Yes, Crimso or his own electric band. Perhaps even more so! I guess people are absolutely right when they point out that musicians get better with age. (But with too many rockers, the problem is there's too little to develop. Once they've given all they've got, in maybe four or five essential albums, there's nothing left to say...)
Back to Top
Anthony View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 769
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:33
David Gilmour - Guitar - 1975
 
(Roger Waters - bassguitar - always a lowpoint)
Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
Back to Top
toolis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1678
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:47

as a player, Mark Zonder blew my mind with A Pleasant Shade Of Gray (1997).. just watch the DVD and you'll understand...

also, Roger Waters reached the top twice, with The Wall (1979) and Amused To Death (1994)..
The Wall cause: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=76799 and Amused.. cause it is the best anti-war concept ever...

Edited by toolis - May 15 2007 at 06:03
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:04
Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now
 
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
fuxi View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:12
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now

 


NOW you're talking!
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7559
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:00
Originally posted by Atavachron

Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by andu

on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.

 

That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.

 

Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.

 

*from generalisms "R" Us... Wink



I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.



 
Without doing any particular research, it would make sense that maybe left-brain (or whichever side is the creative one) to physical activity connectors respond more quickly when young - but without right-brain (or the logical centre), it's going to dry up pretty quickly once the limits have been reached.
 
If you train the logical centre to think rationally and learn the rules, then, once you've nailed the hand/brain co-ordination bit, it only gets better as the rules begin to sink in.
 
At least, that's my take on it - I'm older than 20, and did a lot of studying from age 4 upwards - although mainly not on the guitar - and my guitar playing has definitely not reached its peak, as I find I'm still learning new things all the time because my creative drive is probably stronger than it was back then, and I'm driven to try new things all the time.
 
It certainly holds true when you consider Grappelli, with his rigourous training - and Holdsworth also received training from his father - so there's evidence to suggest that my theory holds some water - and when you consider that Mozart was trained by his father at the age of 4, and was both writing and performing well before he hit double figures, this side of the equation seems proven.
 
It's the other side that's more interesting - untrained rock musicians who remain at their prime.
 
I can't think of many...
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
paolo.beenees View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 30 2007
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1120
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:18
Niccolò - Guitar 2027 (he's my nephew, you'll see!) Big%20smile
Back to Top
zbida View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 679
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:39

My proposition:

Bryan Ferry (hmm, rare mentioned hereUnhappy) - first half of '80's - creativity: Avalon, Boys And Girls.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.