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reality 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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 Posted: August 04 2007 at 11:59 |
 docsolar wrote:
I really like SGM, from what I've heard...I haven't listened to the whole album "Of Natural History" yet, but I am acquiring it now, and should be listening in the next 2-3 days.
And as for classical music, it's largely the result of study, whereas rock music tends to be the result of expression and emotion, and I enjoy both disciplines. I think when both disciplines combine, it creates perfect music, and prog fits that bill often.
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Both disciplines have combined? Where is that? Coming from the classical side prog is purely Pop music. Anyway there are certifiable ways to ascertain a relative form of musical genius. Music theorists along with musicologists and other historians have named only four in the past five hundred years (and none of them have come from this century so far), so to say SGM are musical geniuses is a bit of a stretch.
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 09:45 |
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Who are the four?
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LeInsomniac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 22 2006
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 315
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 12:15 |
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Well, I don't know about that but I too heard that music theorist and musicologists as you put it, said that Frank Zappa was the musical genius from the 20th century as well the best composer of it. No doubt about is genius here, if seen in a jazz point of view or prog point of view.
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 Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back
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SoundsofSeasons
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: Arizona -- USA
Status: Offline
Points: 221
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 00:01 |
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Mmmmaybe probably possibly if not sometimes only if on Wednesday, than definitely on the first of chocolate.
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1 Chronicles 13:7-9
Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 12:48 |
1800iareyay wrote:
Who are the four? |
Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner. Musical genius = capacity of intellect. In reletive terms these four are compared with Albert Einstein or Sir Issac Newton (very very rare). Are SGM comparable in relative terms to have the intellectual capacity of Albert Einstein or Bach? I know a silly question but it is a silly thread. In recent years there has been speculation that there is a fifth. A young man has been discovered in I believe the United States who has written five complete symphonies before the age of twelve. He has been recognized for his ability to "multi channel", that is to play five or so melodys in his head at the same time (Mozart could do seven). Whether this kid pans out I do not know, but so far nobody has seen this early potential for near two hundred years. Genius is an overused word and usually used to promote people who do not meet the standard of the actual meaning. With that being said beyond the objective four masters a "learned" subjective speculation can be applied to others such as Mendelssohn or Saint-Sans but not to SGM or Frank Zappa.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
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Points: 15783
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 12:59 |
You find comparing SGM to Bach silly. Personally though I would gladly take SGM over Wagner. And if we're taking genius as an absolute term as you are, I find it absolutely ridiculous to compare a genius like Newton to Mozart.
It's best to just take genius to be relative. When we use it we're not bringing up outlandish compairsons between everything genius is used to describe. We mean it in a local sense.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 13:03 |
reality wrote:
1800iareyay wrote:
Who are the four? |
Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner. Musical genius = capacity of intellect.
In reletive terms these four are compared with Albert Einstein or Sir Issac Newton (very very rare).
Are SGM comparable in relative terms to have the intellectual capacity of Albert Einstein or Bach? I know a silly question but it is a silly thread.
In recent years there has been speculation that there is a fifth. A young man has been discovered in I believe the United States who has written five complete symphonies before the age of twelve. He has been recognized for his ability to "multi channel", that is to play five or so melodys in his head at the same time (Mozart could do seven). Whether this kid pans out I do not know, but so far nobody has seen this early potential for near two hundred years.
Genius is an overused word and usually used to promote people who do not meet the standard of the actual meaning. With that being said beyond the objective four masters a "learned" subjective speculation can be applied to others such as Mendelssohn or Saint-Sans but not to SGM or Frank Zappa.
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SGM, not so much, but I think that saying Zappa wasn't a genius is stupid, after all Zappa and Zorn are the two Z's of modern musical genius, they may not be the same tipe as Einstien, they are the artistic kind.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:39 |
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Let me quote myself "Musical genius = capacity of intellect". Artistic, science or anything else. Based on Gardener's theory of multiple intelligence (when it is properly understood) it is very proper to use a correlation to capacity of a scientific genius to a musical genius as "art" has the same need of accelerated brain function as creating the theory of relativity. Genius is not the product produced but the ability of the mind, the capacity of intellect wherever that function is centered. Music is a process of the brain just like physics, both are scientifically regulated and both rely on the same wellspring of resources, it are these resources and the availability of them that reflect genius.
Do some research on Wagner and you will find giant contributions to the field of music and art. Yes he was a bigot as was popular in a lot of circles in Germany but his capacity for intellect was immense and he used it well. If you would rather listen to SGM go right ahead, not everybody has to listen to Wagner. But as I say in the same breath, SGM's contribution to the musical landscape will be easily forgotten, while the institutions built upon Wagner's genius will live on as long as this world lasts.
And yes I find a comparison of Bach and SGM as unequivocally, undeniably, Indisputably...just plain silly.
By the way I like SGM, I am just being realistic.
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Minimalist777
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 19 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 293
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:58 |
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They and TMV are definetly on top of the genre right now. I love their new album and they put on a fantastic live show!
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WWOSD?
What Would OliverStoned Do?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 07 2007 at 21:04 |
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Kind of. Very impressive music (Glorious times, the one I have), though itcould be better... But very very impressive... Now this is "avant" music I I can see some good qualities in....
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TR!P
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 21 2006
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 69
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Posted: August 08 2007 at 06:35 |
i tottaly agree with the people saying SGM are not genius in the traditional sense of genius,
to me, Da Vinci would qualify in the traditional sense of the word
however, i still think SGM can be labeld 'genius' ... just not in the traditional sense,
these men and woman in the band are modern day genius's, ill admit, this label of "modern day genius" is no where as near special as the traditional sence of the word, however it still holds some power
and id pigeon hole them into being "modern day musical geniusus" , which i guess is fine because were not talking about these peoples I.Q.'s were talking about theyer music
these people are genius's at what they do, at the music they make, at crafting they'er particular sound
ill admit i throw around the word genius alot, and as i said, it doesnt mean as much as it should do, but its still meant as a high complement to a person or band who you hold highly and apprieciate
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join communism 
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#1floydfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 153
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Posted: August 08 2007 at 16:07 |
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great band but not geniuses if crazy means genius then yes...
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: August 09 2007 at 11:05 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Yes, but did you expect this kind of Spanish Inquisition? |
NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
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LeInsomniac
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 22 2006
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 315
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Posted: August 09 2007 at 12:37 |
Well certainly I wasn't trying to imply they are those kind of geniuses (ex: Mozart) but in the sense that TR!P explained, dont be that picky Reality with the subject. Maybe i should've called it Sleepytime Gorilla Museum appreciation thread. 
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Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back
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Kaizer_O
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 29
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Posted: August 12 2007 at 14:12 |
There's no special commitee or rulebook that determines what's genius or not. Bach, Wagner or any classical composer never took an intelligence-test, so we can only judge them by their works. SGM have an unique style, combining unique instruments with songwriting that defies any musical theories taught at schools. Plus it's perfectly executed imo. Any band this original is considered genius in my book. 
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Shwang_Shwinga
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Joined: March 22 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 102
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Posted: August 13 2007 at 03:11 |
Exactly. Being unique and not following a trend, and just doing what you love to do....and doing it well...those are the bands that should be respected the most. SGM are unmatched in their style, which is so hard these days considering that almost every band, even prog bands, can be compared or categorized with another band. But I can't think of anything that's too much like Sleepytime at all. Plus their music just kicks ass, what can I say  I think its chaotic, cerebral, schizophrenic, hard-hitting music. Genius status is reached on this end. -SS
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: August 13 2007 at 08:12 |
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Wagner is awesome. Also, some musicologists are now beginning to recognize early composer Josquin du Prez as on the same level as Bach and Beethoven.
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william314159
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: December 28 2007 at 18:00 |
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The museum is absolutely incredible. I'm absolutely hooked. Plus I'm absolutely in love with Carla Kihlstedt.
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2819
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Posted: December 28 2007 at 18:25 |
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No, just a creative band.
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Avantgardehead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
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Posted: December 29 2007 at 03:24 |
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I'd say they're geniuses when it comes to Avant-garde music, like Erik Satie only disturbed.
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Sleepytime Gorilla Museum are they geniuses?
