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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laura Meade
    Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:04
I would like to recommend the addition of the artist Laura Meade into the prog-related category.  She has been a member of the band IZZ (an American symphonic prog band) for some time, and recently released her own EP.  Samples of it can be found at her myspace page.

I'd be happy to contribute any and all information concerning the EP, e.g. track listing, musicians, etc.

Thanks all for your consideration,

Pat
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 08:24
Not sure about this. She is a great singer but I have listened to the samples on her web site and I didn't hear anything particularly prog about them, although I will listen to them again. She can't be added to prog-related just because she sings with IZZ.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 09:58
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Not sure about this. She is a great singer but I have listened to the samples on her web site and I didn't hear anything particularly prog about them, although I will listen to them again. She can't be added to prog-related just because she sings with IZZ.


I appear to have misunderstood the purpose of prog-related.  Agree that her music is not prog - that's why I suggested she be placed in prog-related, but if I'm way off the mark here, consider the request withdrawn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 16:26
I would like to now reopen this request, based on my conversations with Easy Livin and understanding of the site policy with regards to prog related.  I would at least ask that the pertinent admin team formally consider Laura Meade for inclusion into prog related.  I wouldn't be upset if she is still deemed inappropriate for inclusion, but I'd like to know why.  If I am still misunderstanding the criteria for prog related, we'll abandon this thread and I'll take up some more questions in a more appropriate thread dedicated to discussion of prog related.

Thanks.  Respond here or always feel free to drop me a PM.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:23
And she is beautiful.Heart


There are some prog references on her website, in the reviews section.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:29
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

I would like to now reopen this request, based on my conversations with Easy Livin and understanding of the site policy with regards to prog related.  I would at least ask that the pertinent admin team formally consider Laura Meade for inclusion into prog related.  I wouldn't be upset if she is still deemed inappropriate for inclusion, but I'd like to know why.  If I am still misunderstanding the criteria for prog related, we'll abandon this thread and I'll take up some more questions in a more appropriate thread dedicated to discussion of prog related.

Thanks.  Respond here or always feel free to drop me a PM.



Pat.... the only thing ... the only problem I can see is a practical one.... we only have 5 admins.. .with a lot of other duties... lives of their own... and potentially with a LANDSLIDE of PR evaluations to deal with.

While technically she fit the rules... and I am just thinking out loud here so don't shoot me.... should the case also be a case of how it benefits the site.......is it practical to bombard the admins with requests. Not that you are ... but the door is unlocked... and just waiting to be thrown open.


Edited by micky - November 14 2007 at 19:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 22:14
Well, this is something I was trying to probe...somehow I felt that her relationship with a prog band wasn't enough, that some other criterion needed to be satisfied.  But as to what that criterion is...this is the sort of fuzziness that surrounds prog-related.

I guess I'm being a troublemaker.  Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 22:20
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Well, this is something I was trying to probe...somehow I felt that her relationship with a prog band wasn't enough, that some other criterion needed to be satisfied.  But as to what that criterion is...this is the sort of fuzziness that surrounds prog-related.

I guess I'm being a troublemaker.  Embarrassed


pffff.... I make a living here being a troublemaker and a pain in the ass...LOL

and yes... there is a hell of a lot of fuzzy surrounding PR.. What I brought up in yet hairball for the admins to choke on.  Honestly.. if something had to go.. it would be the 'related' to a prog band addtions.   If the music is not related in some way.. it really shouldn't be here.  But I'm just putting out my two cents Pat.. that is for the admins to decide.. they are the ones who know what they can.. and can't manage as far as workload and how far they want to take PR.  I just try to point out the pitfalls as I see them.  Nothing against  Laura there... but  if the stress is going to drive Tony to drinking and crashing the Xover team thread laying waste to everything beyond the ramparts... we can probably live without her LOLWink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 23:30
"
“Equipped with a theater background, Meade became a member of the progressive rock band IZZ in 2002.  And now we have her solo-debut, called simply “Laura Meade”, consisting of a 5 song EP.  
 
Is this a new star on the singer/songwriter horizon?  
 
Well, Miss Meade is at least well on her way there.  Sparingly accompanied by the piano (her own playing), guitar, bass and drums, our good Laura first of all pulls a very effective “Charming” out of her hat, carried by the piano and by the reserved and very professional participation of her band members.  Very catchy and good for the radio, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that song were to become popular all over, reinforced by the various radio stations.
 
“Best Defenses” is quieter, more introverted, again defined by the piano, and it’s mood reminds one a little of Patti Smith in the 70s.  No doubt about it, Ms. Meade can sing, and sometimes some very difficult vocal sections parade across the stage. 
 
On the other hand, “Kerri’s Song” seems to have wings.  Again, very nice melodies and again very suitable for the radio, without ever cozying up to a particular trend...
 
The songs “Then I Could See” and “Plucking Whispers” confirm the very good impression that Laura Meade leaves behind.  The texts are always about human relationships, though there are no soapsuds here and no ‘love-leave-cry’ clichés are used.  On the contrary, there is some serious digging going on here in the suitcase of feelings, and even in the human soul.  So here too: Thumbs up!!
 
According to the label info, the pianist and singer will be going on extensive tours to promote the EP.  Maybe she’ll manage a few intermediary stops in the studio, since this EP awakens an enormous desire for a complete album.”
rocktimes.de"
 
Is this what Prog Archives is about now?
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2007 at 23:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2007 at 23:38
I feel that the music should speak for itself.  It's the music's relation to Prog, not the individual's relation that should matter.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 04:05
As much as I like IZZ and Laura, I don't think her music is prog-related, it's more of your typical singer-songwriter stuff. Surely it's the music that has to be prog-related, not the person otherwise if Britney Spears married Roger Waters we'd have to include her.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 05:43
I don't know anything about Laura Meade but what I've read in Ivan's post, but this time I have to agree with the voices raised against her addition. Let's be VERY careful about adding people just because they are or have been members of prog bands, because this would alter the nature of our site almost irrevocably.

As Alan said, it is the MUSIC that must be prog-related, not the person. Remember that people like Lemmy or Stewart Copeland have been members of prog bands - which would lead to the immediate addition of Motorhead and The Police. And then, please, there's always the dreaded Phil CollinsLOL...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 10:19
Herein lies the confusion:

From yesterday:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:


All solo artists who are members of prog bands are prog related (except Phil Collins!).


And today:
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:


Surely it's the music that has to be prog-related, not the person otherwise if Britney Spears married Roger Waters we'd have to include her.


Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:


Let's be VERY careful about adding people just because they are or have been members of prog bands, because this would alter the nature of our site almost irrevocably....
As Alan said, it is the MUSIC that must be prog-related, not the person. Remember that people like Lemmy or Stewart Copeland have been members of prog bands - which would lead to the immediate addition of Motorhead and The Police. And then, please, there's always the dreaded Phil CollinsLOL...


See what I'm talking about?  And Ivan, no need to respond so harshly - if no one wants Laura Meade added, I won't lose any sleep over it, however, it's clear that prog related generates a lot of confusion -at least to me.

Honestly people, I'm not trying to flame or cause trouble, but you all say "the music has to be prog-related".... what exactly does that mean?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 10:36
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:


See what I'm talking about?  And Ivan, no need to respond so harshly - if no one wants Laura Meade added, I won't lose any sleep over it, however, it's clear that prog related generates a lot of confusion -at least to me.

Honestly people, I'm not trying to flame or cause trouble, but you all say "the music has to be prog-related".... what exactly does that mean?
 
Natural Science, to avoid misinterpretations and being called ruide, i said nothing about Laura Meade despite having a lot to reply because I heard her music.
 
Only copied a description of her music posted in her side and asked if this is what Prog Archives is about, no offence, no sarcasm, nothing, only a quote and a question for others to answer.
 
About Prog Related, the definition is pristine clear, the connfusion has been caused by a couple of contradictory additions, but OK, those were mistakes,. they don't justify another one.
 
The definition says:
 
Quote Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre (PROG), OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#38
 
It's clear, that's Prog Related, nothing else is, this definition despite written by me, was approved by M@X.
 
Sorry if I sounded rude, in this case it wasn't my intention, but quoting a ddescription and asking a question is hardly harsh.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 15 2007 at 11:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 10:40
No worries Ivan, the internet is a difficult medium when it comes to getting the tone of a statement.  I hate to put Easy Livin on the spot, but do you see where his statement generated some confusion?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 10:52
Pat, I can answer you from my own, personal point of view - which, however, may not necessarily be someone else's. In my very humble opinion, being prog-related in a strictly musical sense means that the band or artist in question have either influenced the development of prog (and this is the case of the bands included in Proto-Prog), or have been influenced by it, as is the case of most of the acts included in PR. In some cases, such as one of the most recent additions, Black Sabbath, the band may have been influenced by prog and at the same time influenced the development of one of its more recent subgenres, Prog-Metal.

The main implication of this is that the output of any member of a prog band must show some relation to prog in its MUSIC. Phil Collins has always been refused admission because this relation is missing - I would even go so far as to say that Genesis were influenced by him, and not the other way around.

Though I am very open-minded as regards admissions to our database, the MUSICAL relation to prog of a PR addition must always be clear. If it was decided that every member of a prog band must be added to our database, even if their solo output consists of disco, reggaeton or melodic pop albums, I would do something that is very much out of character, and disagree loudly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 11:02
That is an excellent summary Raf, and it does make sense (and re-reading Ivan's summary, all that is indeed contained in there).  Of course, as always, the devil is in the details - we have a hard enough time determining what is and is not "prog", and now we have the (in my mind) more difficult time of determining a "prog music influence", or lack thereof, in a certain band's output.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 11:31
Again it comes down to semantics.  Phil Collins is prog related because he was a member of Brand X and he was a member of Genesis.  He did influence a progressive rock band, being Genesis.  From a progressive rock point of view, I will concede that that influence was not for the better, but from the point of view that the world of music is a better place because latter day Genesis was influenced by Phil Collins is an argument that would can be debated until the cows come home.  I am a fan of latter day Genesis so unlike a certain member who uses blue fonts that I don't wish to provoke, I don't necessarily think that this influence was a bad thing.  As far as his solo output I tend to believe that despite the fact that it was popular it still has some progressive tendencies.  (But yet again, as I mentioned in the Boston thread I grew up with 80's and 90's "progressive" music instead of 1970's progressive music so I have a bit of a different slant on what is progressive").  Maybe it is well-crafted pop instead of progressive pop but that is again a matter of personal taste and opinion.  Personally, I feel a song like "In the Air Tonight" is at least lyrically a quality progressive rock song, amongst others.  I might even argue that his Phil Collins Big Band album might qualify under some definitions of progressive rock because it merges the two forms of music known as "pop" and "big band".  Isn't it this merger of various forms of music that is so commonly referred to as to what makes a band progressive?  I saw his live show a couple of years back for what he called his "first retirement tour".  It was just as a good as the current Genesis tour.  He and Chester started the show out with a lengthy drum duet similar but different than the one that they are playing on the current Genesis tour.  It was as good as they get.  
 
Before I am permanently banned from this site for speaking such blasphemy I really don't care that Phil Collins is not on this site and I respect that it is the way of the world that the long-time fans of Genesis from the early days consider it to be a badge of honor to resent Phil Collins because Genesis went from a band that wrote some really strange long songs that only a few people listened too, to making shorter catchier songs that made them money so they could put food in the table and lamborghinis in the garage at their third home in Malibu. But I also agree with Easy Livin's earlier post from a website standpoint that having Phil Collins on this site might be a good thing from a standpoint of bringing people who are Phil Collins fans to this site to discover that at one time Genesis was a progressive rock band and that there is this whole website to explore with bands that were similar to that sound.  Again growing up in the 80's and 90's I was aware of latter day Genesis and solo Phil Collins and solo Peter Gabriel long before I was aware of Progressive Rock era Genesis.   
 
I would think that if Phil Collins were added his biography would have to be written well to explain in as nice a way as possible that Phil Collins was a member of Genesis.  That although his solo music is not considered to be very progressive and is pop-oriented but that he is a key member of the progressive rock community because of his involvement with Genesis and Brand X.  Therefore it is very clear that the majority does not consider him to be progressive but that he can be used to possibly bring users to the site.
 
My two cents.  Easy enough to ignore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 11:40
Scott, your post is very well-written, and I like the way you put your arguments forward. However, we must also consider another factor. Such an addition as Phil Collins' is bound to be EXTREMELY disruptive, as well as damage the site's credibility on the web. Resenting Phil Collins may be considered as narrow-minded by some, but the fact remains that his output shows very tenuous links to prog at best, and in most cases is just commercial pop music.

Personally, I wouldn't keep him out of the database because he ruined Genesis, whose fan I have never been, but because his music is a solo artist is simply not related to prog. I think there would be a much better MUSICAL case for adding The Police on the strength of two of its members having been involved with prog bands or artists, and also of their music showing much stronger progressive qualities than anything Collins has ever recorded.

As to bringing new users to the site, this is something I disagree with vehemently. If Phil Collins is added, the most likely effect will be to see a great number of established members leave, or, even worse, lose any motivation to do work on behalf of PA. It has already happened for much less controversial additions. Is it really worth it?



Edited by Ghost Rider - November 15 2007 at 11:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2007 at 12:10
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Again it comes down to semantics.  Phil Collins is prog related because he was a member of Brand X and he was a member of Genesis.  He did influence a progressive rock band, being Genesis.  From a progressive rock point of view, I will concede that that influence was not for the better, but from the point of view that the world of music is a better place because latter day Genesis was influenced by Phil Collins is an argument that would can be debated until the cows come home.  I am a fan of latter day Genesis so unlike a certain member who uses blue fonts that I don't wish to provoke, I don't necessarily think that this influence was a bad thing.  As far as his solo output I tend to believe that despite the fact that it was popular it still has some progressive tendencies.  (But yet again, as I mentioned in the Boston thread I grew up with 80's and 90's "progressive" music instead of 1970's progressive music so I have a bit of a different slant on what is progressive").  Maybe it is well-crafted pop instead of progressive pop but that is again a matter of personal taste and opinion.  Personally, I feel a song like "In the Air Tonight" is at least lyrically a quality progressive rock song, amongst others.  I might even argue that his Phil Collins Big Band album might qualify under some definitions of progressive rock because it merges the two forms of music known as "pop" and "big band".  Isn't it this merger of various forms of music that is so commonly referred to as to what makes a band progressive?  I saw his live show a couple of years back for what he called his "first retirement tour".  It was just as a good as the current Genesis tour.  He and Chester started the show out with a lengthy drum duet similar but different than the one that they are playing on the current Genesis tour.  It was as good as they get.  
 
Rushfan, I will use the bold blue just to seperate our statements, not as an offensive method (Yikes you have to be careful this days LOL)
 
There are four issues in this first parragraph:
 
  • Phil Collins as GENESIS MEMBER performed Prog and influenced other bands, as MEMBER OF BRAND X influenced Prog Fusion, so he's represented in Prog Archives AS A MEMBER OF BOTH BANDS.

Now, to open a page FOR HIS SOLO CAREER would be wrong, because his solo career was not Prog or Prog Related, it's Adult Copntemporary Pop and nothing more, so his solo career has no place here in Prog Archives

  • About the blend of two genres, this is not necessarilly Prog, we know neither POP or Big Band are Prog, so this is a simple mainstream merge of two different styles.
As an example, if we had to add every merge as Prog, we will have to consider REGGAETTON that is taking Latin America by assault, it's a merge of Reggae and Rap, we all agree it's a fusion of two different genres, but none of them is Prog, so there's no reason to consider Daddy Yankee as a Prog or even Prog Related artist.
 
Merges are Prog or Prog Related ONLY IF AT LEAST ONE OF THE GENRES MERGED IS PROG, otherwise it has no relation with Prog.
  • About the lyrics of In the Air Tonight, there's nothing as Prog lyrics, lyrics are neutral in matter of musical genres,  they don't belong to any musical genre, maybe to a literary genre, The Scissor Sisters play Comfortably Numb with the same Pink Floyd lyrics, but it's only a hybrid between Hip Hop and the Bee Gees.

If we had to add artists exclusively for their lyrics, we would had to add , Cat Stevens, Donovan and of course  Bob Dylan, but you don't see them here, because they never played Prog or were related to Prog, maybe Dylan 100 more times than Colins as predecessor, but not even him.

  • n the last part of the definition it's specified that the performing of an instrument, no matter the virtuosity does not alone justify an inclusion, we all know that Phil and Chester are superb drummers, but they were not playing Prog, as a matter of facts, even the prformance alone is not enough, being this a musical site, we have to focus in the composition. 
Before I am permanently banned from this site for speaking such blasphemy I really don't care that Phil Collins is not on this site and I respect that it is the way of the world that the long-time fans of Genesis from the early days consider it to be a badge of honor to resent Phil Collins because Genesis went from a band that wrote some really strange long songs that only a few people listened too, to making shorter catchier songs that made them money so they could put food in the table and lamborghinis in the garage at their third home in Malibu. 
 
Well Rushfan, by the time Genesis was playing The Lamb, they were bnopt starving, so it was not to put food in the table, that's what I expect from a tabloid or Melody Maker magazine but not from you because I read very intelligent posts by you. Peter Gabriel still plays art music and he's not starvig, he even has a  plane if I'm not wrong, Steve Hackett played difficult music and he's more than wealthy.
 
They went to POP because Phil liked mainstream, he has repeated hundreds of times he's a Motown inspired  musician, Tony and Mike wanted more and that's good for them, but doesn't make them Prog.
 
 
But I also agree with Easy Livin's earlier post from a website standpoint that having Phil Collins on this site might be a good thing from a standpoint of bringing people who are Phil Collins fans to this site to discover that at one time Genesis was a progressive rock band and that there is this whole website to explore with bands that were similar to that sound.  Again growing up in the 80's and 90's I was aware of latter day Genesis and solo Phil Collins and solo Peter Gabriel long before I was aware of Progressive Rock era Genesis.   
 
I ciompletely disagree, I'mmember of:
  1. Prog Archiveds
  2. Progressive Ears
  3. Prog4ever
  4. Melo's Prog Bazaar
  5. Neptune Pink Floyd

And in eacgh and every site, Phil Collins is a joke for Proggers, a Proghead that comes here and sees Phil Collins who he )correct or wrong) blamesd for genesis debacle, will not come back ever, because it's almost like an offence to Genesis memory.

I was a member of the Genesis Official forunm, and most Phuil Collins solo fans dopn't give a damn for Gabriel Genesis or anything before ATTW3, they won't turn into Progheads only because Phiol Collins is here, that's incorrect, in that Forum they even harrassed the Gabriel era fans calling them Gabrielites and people who live in the past.
 
So that's a flawed argument, if you add Phil Collins you will scare most Prog fans and won't gain any Pop fan.....Do you believe a fan of No Jackett required will ever buy any Gentle Giant or Van Der Graff Generator albuim?
 
I would think that if Phil Collins were added his biography would have to be written well to explain in as nice a way as possible that Phil Collins was a member of Genesis.  That although his solo music is not considered to be very progressive and is pop-oriented but that he is a key member of the progressive rock community because of his involvement with Genesis and Brand X.  Therefore it is very clear that the majority does not consider him to be progressive but that he can be used to possibly bring users to the site.
 
Rushfan, his solo music is not Progressive or Prog Related at all, lyrics alone don't make Prog, music has to be Prog.
 
My two cents.  Easy enough to ignore.
 
I believe it's more respectful to reply than to ignore.
 
Iván
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 15 2007 at 12:18
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