Sabbath vs Zeppelin (REAL)

Tapfret wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Seriously?????   Every band member in Led Zeppelin blows away their counterparts in Black Sabbath on their respective instruments. Well, I play all of the respective instrumentsbetter than Black sabbath. Certainly doesn't make my music better. Where Zep is concerned, I have also stolen less music from the front porches of Mississippi and Louisiana.

Ghost Rider wrote: efoman wrote:   I'm sorry. I think Black Sabbath sucks, and am shocked that they get the credit they get. I saw where some of Zeppelin's stuff was considered outdated, whereas Sabbath's wasn't. I attribute that to the fact that the world is a darker and angrier place than it was in the early 70's, and the mood of the public has melded more with Sabbath's gloomy sound. Aside from the music, I think someone deciding to name their band Black Sabbath, and fly in the face of religious morals is stupid, and the people who do it are stupid. If there is a God, and I believe there is, you're offending the one who has your eternal fate in His hands just to make a few extra bucks. If you don't believe in God, you're still taking that chance. And I in no way am condoning Jimmy Page's infatuation with Aleister Crowley by choosing them over Sabbath. That was the beginning of the end for them, as people close to them began to fall like flies in very mysterious circumstances. That should be something of a lesson. It is your right to consider BS inferior to LZ, especially in a purely technical sense (which was quite true) - but please, you should try to get your facts right before you slam them from the point of view of content. Black Sabbath was the title of a movie (which wasn't about Satanism, if  I remember well), but most important of all, the members of the band wrote the song of the same title to warn AGAINST the dangers of meddling with the dark side. Page, instead, more than dabbled with the occult, though I am not really sure that had anything to do with the tragedies that befell the band later on. As to not believing in God and flying in the face of religious morals, I wonder what should happen to those who cause the death of millions of people in order to make money...

Edited by Novalis - October 06 2007 at 08:05

"Geezer Butler wrote the song Black Sabbath after he was given an occult book in Latin and Butler had a vision of a black hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed and told Osbourne about the vision. (from VH1 Black Sabbath Documentary)".

efoman wrote: "Geezer Butler wrote the song Black Sabbath after he was given an occult book in Latin and Butler had a vision of a black hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed and told Osbourne about the vision. (from VH1 Black Sabbath Documentary)".   Here is a quote I found in Wikipedia referring to our overrated friends. i thought I remembered hearing somewhere that geezer Butler claimed this spirit vision he saw also basically dictated how some of the songs on the first album should go. But that's not something I can verify. But all in all I think the influence of Black Sabbath has made the world a worse place. All the hatred and darkness pumping through the veins of the metal heads of the world comes indirectly from Sabbath's influence on the start of the genre. This is a genre dedicated to thumbing you rnose in the face of God and boldly stating that you don't give a crap. And even if they are just hamming up the image cause the kiddies are lapping it up, unfortunately the kiddies are taking it seriously, and they are making their fortune on the broken souls of the mixed up kids of the world. If this is something you groove on then more power to you. But you better hope the intellectually indefensible arguments of the atheists are true--that you really are as useless and worthless as a twig floating in a cess pool, and you have a nice sweet abyss of nothingness to look forward to--otherwise there will be Hell to pay. And the last time I looked pain, suffering, and hopelessness were bad things.

Listen, you are entitled to your opinion, but not when you offend people who may have different opinions to yours. On these forums there are lots of atheists and agnostics, and they could very well take exception to your preaching - as any religious person would have the right to do if an atheist called him a deluded fool.

This is a music forum, and artists should be judged on the basis of musical input only. By all means say that BS are the worst band in the world, but please, leave the preaching of fire and brimstone outside this board.

Ghost Rider wrote: efoman wrote: "Geezer Butler wrote the song Black Sabbath after he was given an occult book in Latin and Butler had a vision of a black hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed and told Osbourne about the vision. (from VH1 Black Sabbath Documentary)".   Here is a quote I found in Wikipedia referring to our overrated friends. i thought I remembered hearing somewhere that geezer Butler claimed this spirit vision he saw also basically dictated how some of the songs on the first album should go. But that's not something I can verify. But all in all I think the influence of Black Sabbath has made the world a worse place. All the hatred and darkness pumping through the veins of the metal heads of the world comes indirectly from Sabbath's influence on the start of the genre. This is a genre dedicated to thumbing you rnose in the face of God and boldly stating that you don't give a crap. And even if they are just hamming up the image cause the kiddies are lapping it up, unfortunately the kiddies are taking it seriously, and they are making their fortune on the broken souls of the mixed up kids of the world. If this is something you groove on then more power to you. But you better hope the intellectually indefensible arguments of the atheists are true--that you really are as useless and worthless as a twig floating in a cess pool, and you have a nice sweet abyss of nothingness to look forward to--otherwise there will be Hell to pay. And the last time I looked pain, suffering, and hopelessness were bad things. Listen, you are entitled to your opinion, but not when you offend people who may have different opinions to yours. On these forums there are lots of atheists and agnostics, and they could very well take exception to your preaching - as any religious person would have the right to do if an atheist called him a deluded fool. This is a music forum, and artists should be judged on the basis of musical input only. By all means say that BS are the worst band in the world, but please, leave the preaching of fire and brimstone outside this board.

errrrr....

Amen sister.....

keiser willhelm wrote: I was having a rather heated discussion with one of my friends in which it was said, with hearty use of caps lock and exclamation point,  that jimmy page was garbage, the same with zeppelin.  i then found myself defending one of the bands closest to my heart with zealous  and righteous rage. he later changed his opinions to a less harsh view of the Zep but continued to voice the supremacy of Black sabbath and tony iommi. he also said that zeppelin is one of the all time greats but page was definatley not one of the best guitarists, and that Iommi was better, "The Godfather" i believe he called him. Opinions? Zeppelin or Sabbath?  Iommi or Page? more influential?  Please elaborate too i would like to hear  more than just the fan boy yelling we were doing.  Oh and this is strictly out of the field of prog, has absolutley nothing to do with  how progressive each band is,  although if you value that then let it show in who you vote for. thanks! Mike

*yawn* ... Both bands are obviously great - both record sales and musicians naming these artists as big influences prove that. Which one you prefer depends on your personal taste more than anything else.

Led Zeppelin for me btw ... when it comes to Iommi vs. Page I choose Page too.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 06 2007 at 13:05

micky wrote: Ghost Rider wrote: efoman wrote: "Geezer Butler wrote the song Black Sabbath after he was given an occult book in Latin and Butler had a vision of a black hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed and told Osbourne about the vision. (from VH1 Black Sabbath Documentary)".   Here is a quote I found in Wikipedia referring to our overrated friends. i thought I remembered hearing somewhere that geezer Butler claimed this spirit vision he saw also basically dictated how some of the songs on the first album should go. But that's not something I can verify. But all in all I think the influence of Black Sabbath has made the world a worse place. All the hatred and darkness pumping through the veins of the metal heads of the world comes indirectly from Sabbath's influence on the start of the genre. This is a genre dedicated to thumbing you rnose in the face of God and boldly stating that you don't give a crap. And even if they are just hamming up the image cause the kiddies are lapping it up, unfortunately the kiddies are taking it seriously, and they are making their fortune on the broken souls of the mixed up kids of the world. If this is something you groove on then more power to you. But you better hope the intellectually indefensible arguments of the atheists are true--that you really are as useless and worthless as a twig floating in a cess pool, and you have a nice sweet abyss of nothingness to look forward to--otherwise there will be Hell to pay. And the last time I looked pain, suffering, and hopelessness were bad things. Listen, you are entitled to your opinion, but not when you offend people who may have different opinions to yours. On these forums there are lots of atheists and agnostics, and they could very well take exception to your preaching - as any religious person would have the right to do if an atheist called him a deluded fool. This is a music forum, and artists should be judged on the basis of musical input only. By all means say that BS are the worst band in the world, but please, leave the preaching of fire and brimstone outside this board. errrrr.... Amen sister.....

Trickster F. wrote: micky wrote: Ghost Rider wrote: efoman wrote: "Geezer Butler wrote the song Black Sabbath after he was given an occult book in Latin and Butler had a vision of a black hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed and told Osbourne about the vision. (from VH1 Black Sabbath Documentary)".   Here is a quote I found in Wikipedia referring to our overrated friends. i thought I remembered hearing somewhere that geezer Butler claimed this spirit vision he saw also basically dictated how some of the songs on the first album should go. But that's not something I can verify. But all in all I think the influence of Black Sabbath has made the world a worse place. All the hatred and darkness pumping through the veins of the metal heads of the world comes indirectly from Sabbath's influence on the start of the genre. This is a genre dedicated to thumbing you rnose in the face of God and boldly stating that you don't give a crap. And even if they are just hamming up the image cause the kiddies are lapping it up, unfortunately the kiddies are taking it seriously, and they are making their fortune on the broken souls of the mixed up kids of the world. If this is something you groove on then more power to you. But you better hope the intellectually indefensible arguments of the atheists are true--that you really are as useless and worthless as a twig floating in a cess pool, and you have a nice sweet abyss of nothingness to look forward to--otherwise there will be Hell to pay. And the last time I looked pain, suffering, and hopelessness were bad things. Listen, you are entitled to your opinion, but not when you offend people who may have different opinions to yours. On these forums there are lots of atheists and agnostics, and they could very well take exception to your preaching - as any religious person would have the right to do if an atheist called him a deluded fool. This is a music forum, and artists should be judged on the basis of musical input only. By all means say that BS are the worst band in the world, but please, leave the preaching of fire and brimstone outside this board. errrrr.... Amen sister.....   Religion and music should never be considered to be two closely connected aspects. Here's one fact from my life (in third person), observed from two different perspectives:   One of the happiest days in a life of a Prog nerd was when he met the musicians from the band Emperor.   One of the happiest days in a life of an orthodox Christian was when he shook hands with a satanist, a church arsonist and a homophobic murderer, in that order.     The second sentence takes a look at the situation from the religious perspective, the first simply explains why the day was so special. Now, which one makes more sense?

efoman wrote: But all in all I think the influence of Black Sabbath has made the world a worse place. All the hatred and darkness pumping through the veins of the metal heads of the world comes indirectly from Sabbath's influence on the start of the genre. This is a genre dedicated to thumbing you rnose in the face of God and boldly stating that you don't give a crap.

Utter Nonsense.

First of all: Being a "metal head" does not mean that one has "hatred and darkness pumping through one's veins".

Secondly: Black Sabbath are not a band who preach hatred and darkness. I'm not a fan btw.

Thirdly: I'm not Christian, and I love listening to bands who deny Christianity ... listen to Celtic Frost - Monotheist if you want an example of this kind of music. But even listening to this music doesn't make me a bad person ... rather the reverse. I simply appreciate extreme views - in any direction as long as nobody gets hurt or crimes are promoted (which means that I for example won't listen to black metal bands whose members have been convicted of murder or arson).

So: Am I a "metal head"? yes. Am I an atheist? yes. Am I a bad person dominated by hatred and darkness? no.

^ I don't think you can completely separate the music from the artists. Apparently people differ in where they draw the line - for me it is racism, capital crimes and other things like that. For example I couldn't enjoy a piece of music when I knew that one of the artists was convicted of murder *and* his music is related to this behaviour.