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Mandrakeroot View Drop Down
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Points: 5851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:24
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Personally (i.e. not as an Admin), I reckon Wishbone Ash are fine in PR. I have (and have reviewed) most of their albums. There is no doubt they should be here, but I believe PR is ideal for them.
 
Well... Proper because is a very boundaries band I think that (also for PA policy) PR is a correct place for Ash.
 
But Jeff Beck for me finds the right arrangement in the HP, because also the JR/ Fusion albums have a great Heavy attitude. But, clear, is only my perception of Jeff music.
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andu View Drop Down
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:29
I think we should clear out the issue whether "If a band has one 100% prog album, it goes to the respective prog subgenre" is a rule or is it just a myth, before we start.

What do the Admins say?
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:35
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

I think we should clear out the issue whether "If a band has one 100% prog album, it goes to the respective prog subgenre" is a rule or is it just a myth, before we start.

What do the Admins say?
 
Tough... Smile
 
If a band released only one album (like many Italian acts) and this album is prog then they shall go to their genres. Maybe one album amid 2 or 3 could give a band their passport for a real genre. Otherwise, think of a band with 15-20 albums where only one is 100% prog, well, in this case, I'm afraid they'll be out of a real prog genre.
 
Anyway, teams are devoted to evaluate all prog stuff and they may decide or even consult other Collabs or the entire community to check/confirm their decision.
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moreitsythanyou View Drop Down
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Points: 11682 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:48
Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:58
Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
 
More with each one's personal perception of what prog is than any relation with favoritism, especially for those bands in the boundaries.
 
Since this thread was started, not a band left the Prog-Related (or Proto-Prog) sections and if eventually some are officially requested to go to a real genre, then they'll need a 4-1 vote yes in the AZ.
 
 
Guigo

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moreitsythanyou View Drop Down
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Points: 11682 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2007 at 19:07
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
 
More with each one's personal perception of what prog is than any relation with favoritism, especially for those bands in the boundaries.
 
Since this thread was started, not a band left the Prog-Related (or Proto-Prog) sections and if eventually some are officially requested to go to a real genre, then they'll need a 4-1 vote yes in the AZ.
 
 

Well that's good to know. Because I feel that some of these bands are perfectly placed in PR.
I can't say I'm worried though. You guys know what you're doing.
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Points: 24392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 01:50
Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?


This is an extremely unfair thing to say, especially to people who WORK hard on behalf of the site. Though I can understand your point of view, personally I am not going to take kindly to anyone who questions my integrity. It is very clear you don't trust us, in spite of what you said in your following post. I am very sorry about that, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my motives again - even though I can't speak for the others.
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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 01:59
MOVE PROCOL HARUM TO ART ROCK!!!
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Points: 1305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:19
Phish into Crossover or possibly Jazz Rock/Fusion
 
Ween into Crossover or Eclectic Prog
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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:26
WEEN SHOULD BE MOVED TO ART ROCK!!!
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:27
Älgarnas Trädgård could be moved to RIO/Avant, but i'm not sure.
Some songs are really Spacerock, while some are just swedish folk with a wierd touch.
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Points: 1305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:32
Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

WEEN SHOULD BE MOVED TO ART ROCK!!!
 
I forgot that Ween aren't even in Prog Related yet.
 
Therefore, I say that they should be added to Prog Related, and then moved into Art Rock.
 
And then Boognish shall provide M@X  and Easy Livin with scepters of wealth and power.
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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:41
Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

WEEN SHOULD BE MOVED TO ART ROCK!!!
 
I forgot that Ween aren't even in Prog Related yet.
 
Therefore, I say that they should be added to Prog Related, and then moved into Art Rock.
 
And then Boognish shall provide M@X  and Easy Livin with scepters of wealth and power.
 
Damn it man! You had me checking the archives to see if they were here yet!
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Points: 5793 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 08:56
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:


Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

DISCIPLINE - from Neo to Eclectic (VDGG and KC influences dominate over obvious GENESIS ones)

oh, we can check it. I don't know anything about this band. Smile



need a link? will do. Very good band, and their 1997' album is a Masterpiece (IMHO surely)
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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 09:12
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:


Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

DISCIPLINE - from Neo to Eclectic (VDGG and KC influences dominate over obvious GENESIS ones)

oh, we can check it. I don't know anything about this band. Smile



need a link? will do. Very good band, and their 1997' album is a Masterpiece (IMHO surely)


sounds promising, to say the least (though we can't face this band's move based on how good it sounds, but on what styles it goes through; we have to admit that, even if, nowadays, we're a bit bittered about over-classifying and genre over-talking Wink).

yes, it would be swell for you to provide us a link. Clap
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 11:31
Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

 
And then Boognish shall provide M@X  and Easy Livin with scepters of wealth and power.
 
Just the wealth would be fine!Wink
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:01
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:


Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
This is an extremely unfair thing to say, especially to people who WORK hard on behalf of the site. Though I can understand your point of view, personally I am not going to take kindly to anyone who questions my integrity. It is very clear you don't trust us, in spite of what you said in your following post. I am very sorry about that, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my motives again - even though I can't speak for the others.


I don't think that was directed at a specific person. He said everyone. I also think that this is a valid point. Sometimes we lose objectivity with artists we really like.

a.k.a. H.T.

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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:26
I agree with HT and the previous poster but to be fair I will go band by band:
  1. Jon Anderson, Mainly an early form of .New Age, poetry or whatever, that's not Prog IMHO, he's OK in Related.
  2. APP - Fulfills the requirement, two 100% albums (Tales of Mystery and Imagigination plus I Robot) I believe should be in Xover as an exception, but because of his later works, i wouldn't loose my temper if they aren't moved.
  3. Roxy Music Please, this guys are barely Prog the combination Eno - Ferry is Prog Related at the most.
  4. Vangelis - Heaven and Hell is Prog, but the rest of his career is mainly New Age, he is OK in Prog Related
Now my central point...What is the problem with Proto Prog? This is a genre, it defines bands that were the link between Psyche and Prog, Procul Harum is a great band, but they definetely fit in the parameters of Proto Prog, no matter how good they arwe, and it's not like Prog Related,...........For me, Proto Prog is already an early stage of Progressive Rock.
 
The Administrators said that the division of Art Rock wouldn't imply moving artists from Prog Related to a Prog Category, but now seems things are changing?
 
Or is Crossover going to get all Prog Related bands?
 
Please we need stable rules
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 18 2007 at 12:29
            
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:40
Not the time to think gravely, so here are my responses (as former AR specialist that worked in the split process) to your two bold questions. Wink

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Administrators said that the division of Art Rock wouldn't imply moving artists from Prog Related to a Prog Category, but now seems things are changing?

The Admins (as well with the AR specialists) assured everyone that, first of all, the new genres are better categories for the bands in the old and overflooded Art Rock genre. Further on, they've implied that there won't be a radical change and amount of moves, just because of these new genres. That doesn't mean some bands won't get moved, if they are fit in these genres rather than their current ones (see Porcupine Tree in Heavy Prog, etc.)

Or is Crossover going to get all Prog Related bands?
 
Crossover is NOT going to get all the Prog Related bands; nevertheless, it wasn't a secret that, since Crossover is a genre of prog mixed with mainstream or of prog with lesser perfect qualities, some Prog Related bands could fit better, starting the split, in Crossover (even if it means moving from a non-prog genre to a prog one). I think you yourself pretty much agreed with Peter Gabriel, some bands are or can be in the same case.
Please we need stable rules
 
Iván
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I agree with HT and the previous poster but to be fair I will go band by band:
  1. Jon Anderson, Mainly an early form of .New Age, poetry or whatever, that's not Prog IMHO, he's OK in Related.
  2. APP - Fulfills the requirement, two 100% albums (Tales of Mystery and Imagigination plus I Robot) I believe should be in Xover as an exception, but because of his later works, i wouldn't loose my temper if they aren't moved.
  3. Roxy Music Please, this guys are barely Prog the combination Eno - Ferry is Prog Related at the most.
  4. Vangelis - Heaven and Hell is Prog, but the rest of his career is mainly New Age, he is OK in Prog Related
Now my central point...What is the problem with Proto Prog? This is a genre, it defines bands that were the link between Psyche and Prog, Procul Harum is a great band, but they definetely fit in the parameters of Proto Prog, no matter how good they arwe, and it's not like Prog Related,...........For me, Proto Prog is already an early stage of Progressive Rock.
 
The Administrators said that the division of Art Rock wouldn't imply moving artists from Prog Related to a Prog Category, but now seems things are changing?
 
Or is Crossover going to get all Prog Related bands?
 
Please we need stable rules
 
Iván


quit playing the fool Ivan... Xover is not getting all prog related groups....

read ..and understand....

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

just curious as to everyones thoughts...

as we noted in the PR thread.. there exists here a severe amount of confusion as to the nature of P-R.  In my time here... I have seen full prog groups added there  for lack of a  sub-genre that matches there music exactly, with no sense of 'best fit'  so they would be dumped into PR.  There are many groups presently in PR that did prog albums.. but are not 'thought' of as prog groups.  Since this site is about prog music... not a career overview site like Allmusic.  It should be the prog that is important..


Moving groups out, is not exactly a priority of the genre teams. .since we are bombarded with new suggestions for addtion,  those that come through the Band Submissions Team, threads here,  our fellow collabs directly, or of course our our explorations.  However I am curious and would like to involve the general forum.. .what groups currently in PR do you think should be moved to other sub-genres.. and which ones.



Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Great thread. As it was instigated at the suggestion of a member of the Admin Team, I'm sure we will be supportive of any proposals.
 
Are there any you want us to look at jsut now?


this thread is for suggestions... if you have some...I'd love to hear them...


Edited by micky - November 18 2007 at 12:42
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