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MikeEnRegalia 
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 Topic: Metallica: Progressiveness Distribution
Posted: September 15 2008 at 12:07 |
^ you can rate the tracks by clicking the symbol to the right of the album rating dropdown ... works for the other tags as well. 
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 15 2008 at 12:08
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Zitro
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Posted: September 15 2008 at 11:53 |
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i can't rate individual tracks like in the past. Did you remove that feature?
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 15 2008 at 10:51 |
I just upgraded the chart a little bit ... the related/prog ranges are now marked accordingly. @Iván: Have a look at the chart now ... it's now more obvious that what I'm doing is quite compatible with your "ternary" solution (non prog, prog related, prog). 
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 15 2008 at 11:49
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topofsm
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Posted: September 14 2008 at 23:53 |
Ivan, I'd like to say something about your opinions. I have been reading these forums for a long time, much longer than how long I've actually been a member. I've seen you in discussions, and frankly, you seem very black and white and your opinions aren't very open to things. I really don't mean to offend you, and I probably shouldn't considering you have much respect from the forum (and me) and have been here longer, but come on.
How can you label an album just progressive, somewhat progressive, or not progressive? I would consider both "ITCOTCK" and "Close to the Edge" as progressive, but since the former broke more ground, wouldn't you say ITCOTCK is more progressive? Then it would be on a higher level of progressiveness.
Many people wish there were 10 levels to rate an album on, rather than just five. Would you rather have 3 levels? Bad, okay, and good? I'm just saying.
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russellk
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Posted: September 14 2008 at 22:42 |
 Fight Club wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
Iván |
Agreed.
Honestly, if this site truly cared about "levels of progressiveness" half of the bands that are here wouldn't be and there'd be about twice as much electronic-related material. Artists such as Autechre, Boards of Canada, and Aphex Twin are more progressive than 80% of the bands here, but they have no similarity to the prog sound at all, so they get no recognition. I'd argue their placement on this site long before I would ever argue Metallica's.
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I've tried. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31334&PN=23 The electronic prog definition is not closely related to the 'prog sound', but it admits of nothing that might sound remotely 'commercial'.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 12 2008 at 16:39 |
*Please* add them to my website then ... there *you* define what's progressive and what isn't. I even recently implemented the distinction between progressiveness and what you call "prog sound". And ... your sorting algorithm is still there (you can select it on the "charts" page).
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Fight Club
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Posted: September 12 2008 at 16:10 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes guys, but almost 63% of the members who voted in the poll started believe Metallica shouldn't be here.
Honestly, talking about "Levels of Progressiveness" make me laugh,
Iván |
Agreed. Honestly, if this site truly cared about "levels of progressiveness" half of the bands that are here wouldn't be and there'd be about twice as much electronic-related material. Artists such as Autechre, Boards of Canada, and Aphex Twin are more progressive than 80% of the bands here, but they have no similarity to the prog sound at all, so they get no recognition. I'd argue their placement on this site long before I would ever argue Metallica's.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 12 2008 at 10:17 |
Cool ... Death Magnetic has just broken through into prog territory!
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 12 2008 at 02:34 |
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Avantgardehead
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Posted: September 12 2008 at 01:59 |
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eBay! The End!
I got all three albums for around $15 on eBay. But yes, this band is radically different than Kayo Dot and everything else Mr. Driver has done. He's one of those guys who's impossible to pigeonhole.
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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The T
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 23:54 |
^Why the hell do you have TWO lines there?  
I'd explore Maudlin of the Well... if I could get the cd.... (I hate mp3's, sorry)
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 16:07 |
^ In case you were wondering: 
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Avantgardehead
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:47 |
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For me, it's the way they seamlessly meld metal with jazz and more indie/alternative elements that make them progressive.
And T, you should really hear maudlin of the Well. It's nothing like Kayo Dot and it's the most metal thing Toby has ever done. You know, riffs, growls, guitar solos, double-bass, etc.
Edited by Avantgardehead - September 11 2008 at 15:51
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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The T
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:45 |
Avantgardehead wrote:
The T wrote:
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5..... |
So then if a Metallica album gets an 8.5 on a scale of 0-10 for progressive metal, then what on Earth would a maudlin of the Well get?!?!
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Mmm.... The band you mentioned (which I haven't heard but let's assume, as it is a Driver's band, sounds somewhat like Kayo Dot) may be more EXPERIMENTAL and, of course, "avant-garde". Progressive as in progressive-metal, it's another history. Let's say that, if we try to apply the definition and concepts from 70's prog-rock to both bands, Driver's band may be proggier as it's freer, more form-free. Metallica wouldn't score that high in such a case. But talking in progressive-METAL terms (I have explained what I think about the subject in my thread in the prog-lounge), obviously Metallica was a turning point in the genre's history (specially with MoP and AJFA) that Driver's band can't be, as it's barely even METAL in the first place.... (if it's like Kayo Dot's DAWCT.... because BLD is absolutely 0% metal)
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:05 |
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^ I'm just saying that at least for me experimentation/avant-garde is not the same as progressiveness. I can't (yet) put my finger on it, but sometimes I get the feeling that the band is only trying to be as "non-conformist" as possible. In those cases I will not give them high progressiveness scores, although I'm quite aware that many other people would rate them highly. The opposite also happens ... sometimes I give high progressiveness scores to albums which aren't avant/experimental at all.
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Avantgardehead
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:43 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I know that some would rank MotW higher on the progressiveness scale, but IMHO much of their progressiveness is actually "just" experimentation/avant-garde.
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But experimental and avant-garde genres are listed here, so there's still merit to them.
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Zitro
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Joined: July 11 2005
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:26 |
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Kill 'em All : 1.5
Ride the Lightning: 3
Master of Puppets: 4
And Justice For All: 4.5
Metallica: 3.5
Load: 3.5
Reload: 2
St Anger: 1
Death Magnetic (from what I heard in youtube): 3.5
EDIT: and no, Metallica doesn't belong in here at all.
Edited by Zitro - September 11 2008 at 13:27
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 06:55 |
^ I'm a freak ... that's a given. 
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micky
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 06:29 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: September 11 2008 at 05:27 |
Avantgardehead wrote:
The T wrote:
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5..... |
So then if a Metallica album gets an 8.5 on a scale of 0-10 for progressive metal, then what on Earth would a maudlin of the Well get?!?!
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"a Metallica album" ... they're not all the same, so it depends on which album you're talking about. If it was Master of Puppets vs. Bath I'd say 5 vs. 7. I know that some would rank MotW higher on the progressiveness scale, but IMHO much of their progressiveness is actually "just" experimentation/avant-garde.
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Metallica: Progressiveness Distribution
