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UMUR 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3010
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 Posted: December 07 2008 at 07:44 |
I canīt wait to see you (Slaver) suggest Korn in the suggest bands forum. Entertainment like that normally doesnīt come for free  . And yes CPicard bodies will lie in the streets   .
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 10:47 |
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Hi UMUR - gonna go for it - watch the bodies role.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 11:16 |
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FREE ENTERTAINMENT IS THE BEST!
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:09 |
Man , I also like Stratovarius and I agree that listeing to the them may clear your path to classic bands like Yes for instance. However , I think the site has to restrain additions a bit for example no matter how much I like Miles Davis his inclusion on the site was very controversial and left the door open to a lot of jazz mucisians to get here
Probably we'll see Stan Getz and Bill Evans here soon!!
What's the big deal in not having one of your fav bands listed here? You still can discuss about them in the General Music disscusions thread. I could go and open a Shakira appreciation thread right now.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:31 |
Hi Crimson87 - my deal here is that there are a lot of inclusions on Progarchives that shouldn't be here. To my mind Stratovarius should be because they are Prog. They have done a lot of non prog tracks but they've done some brilliant prog tracks as well. "Destiny" anyone??
Korn - should be here as well - if only for their "Issues" album.
Oh yeah -Miles Davis deserves his spot.
As for Shakira - pretty - but pure pop.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:45 |
 slaver wrote:
Hi Crimson87 - my deal here is that there are a lot of inclusions on Progarchives that shouldn't be here. To my mind Stratovarius should be because they are Prog. They have done a lot of non prog tracks but they've done some brilliant prog tracks as well. "Destiny" anyone?? |
Listening to Destiny now ... this is reminding of Europe a lot (think Final Countdown). Very, very basic harmonic structure. Sonata Arctica are another association ... neither of those are prog. Ok, the track is more than 10 minutes long ... big deal.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 13:04 |
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Hey Mr Progfreak - their are universes between Europe and Stratovarius.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lā, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 13:55 |
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Really? They're both Swedish, aren't they? So, I would say there must be barely some kilometers or miles between them.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:05 |
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We're talking musically here!!!! They both come from Sweden and that means what???? Blondie and Pink Floyd vector from the same landmass - so do Black Sabbath!! Listen to Strat ... then comment.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:12 |
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^ I was listening to the track "Destiny" and it reminded me of Europe ... mostly because of the chord progressions and vocal lines.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lā, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:14 |
slaver wrote:
We're talking musically here!!!! They both come from Sweden and that means what???? Blondie and Pink Floyd vector from the same landmass - so do Black Sabbath!! Listen to Strat ... then comment. |
Irony, humor, jokes... By the way, Blondie is a band from New York, not York. They're hardly from the same landmass than Pink and Black. Plus, I just remembered Stratovarius was finnish. My bad.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:20 |
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You right babout Blondie but I could mention so many others of the same ilk!!!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 16:58 |
slaver wrote:
Rushfan 4 - Thank you. Hi Mr Progfreak - isn't the very basis of prog music the fact that it is more complex than mainstream pop music. |
Not necessarily accurate Slaver, I'm sure you heard Meatloaf, Jim Steinman's music for Meat is far more complex than many Prog bands and he's a Pop/Metalish/ Balladesque/ Rock artist, Yngwee Malmsteed music and solos are far more elaborate that many prog Metal bands, but complexitry alone means nothing
slaver wrote:
Aren't we proud of the fact that a man like John Petrucci can play his instrument in a way that no pop musician can. Why do we call it instrument w**king when a musician proves what he is capable of? |
I try to avoid any DT thread, but if I have to be honest, John Petrucci's abbility to play faster than many, means absolutely nothing to me, I stay 1,000 times with Steve Hackett and Steve Howe rather than Petrucci's style, which I find extremely complex but empty for me.
slaver wrote:
Isn't that what makes us different from the "pop" crowd. I say again, I can play each and every Metallica track on my guitar note for note. I cannot play a lot of Stratovarius's music because I'm not good enough. |
Again, complexity means nothing, sometimes making it simpler is what a song needs to be a masterpiece, I'd stay with Firth of Fifth guitar section rather than with everything Petrucci did.during all his career.
The fact that you can play the music of one artist and not the music of another, only means you're incapable of playing the music of the second artist, nothing more.
I'm sure that you can't play Malmsteen's music as him, but still he is not a prog artist, your playing abbilities, great or small, are not a valid argument of Progressivenes..
slaver wrote:
They have differing beat structures throughout their tracks, they use a lot of Symphonic instrumentation. The keyboard and guitar work within Stratovarius at times borders on stunning. A number of their tracks are long and multi - layered. Again please do me a favor and listen to them. |
At last a valid argument, structure is a key point, not that i'm saying Stratiovarius should be here, because I'm unfamiliar with their music, but the argument seems coherent.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 07 2008 at 17:30
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 17:50 |
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Ok.... Let's just say that Korn will go to exp/metal, Limp Biskit to extreme/tech and Stratovarius to prog-metal, ok? That way we please are members... and we finally can start welcoming artists like Rolling Stones, Shakira (both mentioned here), plus others like Kylie Minogue (my favorite female artist, not for her music so much), Mayhem, (I like them, that's enough), Meat Loaf (Ivan and others like him, that's enough), The Presidents of the United States of America (they have an important name, that's enough), Hombres G (believe me, that's enough), El General (his lyrics are enough) and many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many more.......
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: December 07 2008 at 18:25 |
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On top of that Teo, we add Stravinsky, cos he was prog and all that.
And 50 Cent.
He's down with the prog yo.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 01:43 |
Guys - Malmsteens next on my list of Championing good Prog music.
I would be happy to see Strat under Prog Related here. Tell me do they have more in common with Mozart or with The Rolling Stones?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 03:55 |
slaver wrote:
Guys - Malmsteens next on my list of Championing good Prog music. |
This isn't the Good Music Archives - Malmsteen does not play Progressive Rock. Feel free to discuss him and talk about the blinding speed of his sweep-picking and his technical prowess to your hearts content in one of the already open threads about him:
- but please do not annoy people further by suggesting him for inclusion in the Archives. That subject has been done to death...
slaver wrote:
I would be happy to see Strat under Prog Related here. |
Okay - here's the deal...
Only Admins can approve bands for Prog Related and only Special Collaborator's can propose bands to the Admins for Prog Related.
So, your task is not to convince the general population with wild and unsubstantiated claims but to find an Special Collaborator willing to support your case using valid musical reasons.
Only then can Stratovarius be considered for Prog Related.
slaver wrote:
Tell me do they have more in common with Mozart or with The Rolling Stones? |
That is not relevant - neither are Prog and neither are in the Archive.
If you are dead-set on adding bands to the archive we are always open to suggestions, but new or unknown bands please - mainstream or already popular artists will have either been suggested dozens of times and rejected already or are simply not relevant. 
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What?
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 03:56 |
Listened to them a few times, but found their output pretty bland and formulaic (no idea what that means, sounds great though).
Seriously, reminded me of hair metal, undestinguishable from a lot other bands. The drumming is attrociously lame, and that from the brilliant drummer who used to be in Mekong Delta.
Anyway, my application for Tori Amos also went unheeded, so I'm going to go off in a huff now for at least 30 sophomores.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 05:53 |
It seems I aint gonna win this one. Hey npjnpj - of course Tori Amos should be here but of course her music is too main stream and really uncomplicated. LOL
Dean - when someone tells me that Mozart aint prog then I just know that I have no chance of winning.
Of course Mozart cannot be included here because then this would become a classical music appreciation site, but NOT PROG????? If it weren't for him and his ilk we wouldn't be listening to very much Prog today - would we now? Possibly we would be listening to Metallica because that has nothing really in common with the "Greats".
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 06:03 |
slaver wrote:
Dean - when someone tells me that Mozart aint prog then I just know that I have no chance of winning.
Of course Mozart cannot be included here because then this would become a classical music appreciation site, but NOT PROG????? If it weren't for him and his ilk we wouldn't be listening to very much Prog today - would we now? Possibly we would be listening to Metallica because that has nothing really in common with the "Greats". |
In my opinion you're trapped in the misconception that any music which is technically advanced and visionary/innovative automatically qualifies as "Prog". But the label is a bit more complex - and most importantly, it also denotes a certain *style*. As broad and generic it may be - even considering the range of artists from the 70s alone - there can be rules (which of course depend on opinions, not facts) which determine that one virtuosic/innovative artist is prog, and the other one isn't.
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Stratovarius
