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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 17 2013 at 21:37
Yeah but his portrayal in the Forsyth story was pure fabrication. There was no ODESSA. The Nazis made it out of Germany on their own more or less. He was never known as the Butcher Of Riga as far as I could find out. this was something invented by Forsyth in the novel and it stuck.
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2013 at 23:08
that is correct but he was the SS commander in charge of Riga and killed thousands . The moniker was an easy literary creation. 
"The more I analyze the human race, the more I love my dog" Mme de Stael
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 00:48
The guy is old and probably has but little time left. I just feel people would be falling down to an unhealthy level of thirst for vengeance to put the obviously soon-to-die guy in jail thus also probably destroying people who are also probably not guilty of anything, his family. Yes, he didn't have those considerations for others' families and a few years ago we would have welcomed him being punished for his crimes. But going all vendetta on a useless 94 year old doesn't sound that good to me. I don't know.

Edited by The T - June 18 2013 at 00:50
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 01:10
^ Not sure if his family is gonna be cool with living with an ex-Nazi from then on. As per "an unhealthy level of thirst for vengeance" ... what? Who would go down to that?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - June 18 2013 at 01:13
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 02:30
Sixty years of living in comfort, safety and freedom, living a life that the victims never could and raising a family that the victims never could. What repentence? What mercy? What thirst for vengence?
 
Whatever happened to justice?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 06:54
Originally posted by The T

The guy is old and probably has but little time left. I just feel people would be falling down to an unhealthy level of thirst for vengeance to put the obviously soon-to-die guy in jail thus also probably destroying people who are also probably not guilty of anything, his family. Yes, he didn't have those considerations for others' families and a few years ago we would have welcomed him being punished for his crimes. But going all vendetta on a useless 94 year old doesn't sound that good to me. I don't know.

I dunno either. I'm with Mr.T on this one.
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 07:00
Originally posted by Dean

Sixty years of living in comfort, safety and freedom, living a life that the victims never could and raising a family that the victims never could. What repentence? What mercy? What thirst for vengence?
 
Whatever happened to justice?

So if you were the judge and this old geezer came in front of you you would say, "off with his head" or "drawn & Quartered" or "medieval torture" or "hook him to the back of the tank and take him for a scrape around the block'". or bread & water for the rest of his....... Seriously what kind of punishment would you dish out?
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 07:17
If it was already cold between the Anglo-Americans and the Russians, the last thing we needed was the news of the spying by the British to the G-20 delegates. I guess they all spy each other, but it's kind of embarrassing.
We're heading into cold war again Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 07:21
I don't know about this. 
My granddad had to flee to Sweden with my father, during the 2. WW. My dad was but a mere toddler when it happened, but he vividly remembers all of the unfortunate souls from his family who somehow managed to survive the cruelty of the labour camps. 
They would meet up at new year's eve every year and form this huge circle of people - holding each other in a warm embrace. My dad said that they went somewhere in that moment, their gazes became distant and he could almost sense the coldness and heartache filling the room from some 10 to 20 years ago. Each year there'd be fewer and fewer attending - most of them ending their lives prematurely by their own hands. Too much evil left inside I suppose.

What I mean to say by all this, is that across the globe there are literally thousands upon thousands of similar stories - stories that still to this day colour families in despair. Each time one of these old buggers emerge, the wounds open up again - and even if the war is long gone, I'll bet that a lot of these people still long for justice. 
Now you can bend the word justice to whatever agenda you wish, but you can't deny these families of their feelings of betrayal, when they continue to see war criminals popping up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 07:50
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby

Originally posted by Dean

Sixty years of living in comfort, safety and freedom, living a life that the victims never could and raising a family that the victims never could. What repentence? What mercy? What thirst for vengence?
 
Whatever happened to justice?

So if you were the judge and this old geezer came in front of you you would say, "off with his head" or "drawn & Quartered" or "medieval torture" or "hook him to the back of the tank and take him for a scrape around the block'". or bread & water for the rest of his....... Seriously what kind of punishment would you dish out?
Do you really think that "we" are a rabid mob baying for blood? I have no "jewish" axe to grind, I am not out for retribution, an eye for an eye or a pound of flesh - if (and it is only an "IF") the guy committed war-crimes then he should answer for those crimes and that punishment should fit the crime within what the law permits in the country he is tried in (which would be Poland or Germany, neither of whom have corporal or capital punishment).
 
Do you seriously believe that corporal punishment is acceptable in this day and age? Do you honestly tthinkthat is what I am after? You cannot demonise me for wanting to see jjusticeserved, it's simply not going to wash. Incarceration for the rest of his natural life if it can be proven that he is culpable, denial of freedom is the modern method of punishment regardless of the nature of the crime committed.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 08:26
isn't that a bit too lenient. I mean if they caught the guy just after the war he would have probably be hanged if he were convicted. No? So why not send him to the gallows today? I'm actually for leaving the guy alone but if you're going to prosecute him do so using the punishments which were in place at the time of his crimes. If  you're gonna do something do it right man. Look what the Israelis did with Eichmann. They didn't f**k around with him. 
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 09:00
This article explains how changed laws have made it much easier to convict these guys by no longer having to prove blood on their own hands via witnesses or photos.....it is enough to place them at the scene via paper records and convict  via association

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18148965-never-too-late-nazi-hunters-tirelessly-pursue-50-elderly-auschwitz-war-criminals?lite

“Now in Germany, all of a sudden, all you have is one task – all you have to do is find people, because you can prove service with documents,” Zuroff said. “You don’t have to have someone who says, ‘I saw this b*****d kill my fellow inmate.’”

He added: “Today, any job in a concentration camp can be sufficient evidence towards a conviction as accessory to murder."






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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 09:12
Yeah but what if the guy just wanted a job? Maybe he was just the guy who cut the grass or drove a truck ?
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 10:01
Well, this guy didn't work in a camp, he didn't cut the grass, he didn't drive a truck - he commanded a unit of the Ukrainian Self-Defense Legion that wiped out entire Polish villages.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 10:38
Oh well here we go again. What is going on ? Is it open season on war crimminals?

                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 10:54
Would it be a bad thing if it were?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 11:08
So now they are trying to portray this Snowden guy as a likely Chinese spy or something. I saw it yesterday even in CNN. It is just press demonizing and working for Big Brother or will it be true? Regardless, I prefer to know we are being watched (and read, and listened to - not that we didn't assume it anyway) than to ignore the fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 11:10
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote akamaisondufromage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 11:33
Absolutely shocking that people are calling for justice for 'war criminals' what is the world coming to? 
 
Let them live a life of luxury I say.  Surely there should be a point when any law abiding nazi should be allowed to enjoy their retirement from all that continuous goose stepping in peace?  Leave them alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 12:22

There is a difference between history (let it go) and genocide. Humans are capable of incredible cruelty even to their own (Hello Pol Pot) but mass murder is uncalled for and never to be forgotten. The Nazi ideology is a fraudulent farce that was essentially based on one main political tenet = vengeance for Versailles and nothing else. It needed to blame someone (unfortunately the real culprit for Germany’s WW1 defeat is Paul Hindenburg) , so it went about this purity argument which was laughable at best as the only blond and blue eyed Aryan leader in the party was Reinhard Heydrich who was , of course half-Jewish! There are neo-nazi sympathizers still active today, who have one common denominator with each other, a complete lack of knowledge of their own history, and having the cowardice to deny their crimes. At least Goering (the only one at Nuremberg) admitted to the Holocaust which was not the case for the rest of that fine crew.  While fascism will always be around, Nazi criminals must be at the very least identified and neutered socially. 

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