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Joined: November 08 2008
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Topic: The Theist - Agnostic - Atheist Poll Posted: January 07 2010 at 08:44
Negoba wrote:
I think pigeonholing even dreams as "hallucinations" is an oversimplification.
My particular example a few pages back has no scientific explanation except unbelievably improbable coincidence. As I said before, it doesn't prove anything. It's just wierd.
What makes you sure that there is no scientific explanation? Maybe it just hasn't been found yet.
I find this very exciting ... it could provide a definitive answer to the "fine-tuning" question/argument of the universe.
Joined: July 04 2009
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Posted: January 07 2010 at 07:58
Dean wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
I just want to tell you that my girl has just send me to hell... and now I feel brokenhearted... it's sad and it's horrible and I don't want to make a new pathetic thread of been lonely so I just came to say this words... This do not interfer in my believings and I know, this happened for a purpose... but it's still sad...
sorry man, maybe she'll calm down and wanna talk in a few days
This is sad news Juan - I agree with David: talk to her.
Thanks guys... well, I doubt she will like to talk with me... she was very selfish about the issue and even said that she will not answer me and that she will decide when she want to talk to me... totally unfair... but thanks guys... I think time will heal...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Posted: January 07 2010 at 05:56
Atavachron wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
I just want to tell you that my girl has just send me to hell... and now I feel brokenhearted... it's sad and it's horrible and I don't want to make a new pathetic thread of been lonely so I just came to say this words... This do not interfer in my believings and I know, this happened for a purpose... but it's still sad...
sorry man, maybe she'll calm down and wanna talk in a few days
This is sad news Juan - I agree with David: talk to her.
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Posted: January 07 2010 at 04:45
jampa17 wrote:
I just want to tell you that my girl has just send me to hell... and now I feel brokenhearted... it's sad and it's horrible and I don't want to make a new pathetic thread of been lonely so I just came to say this words... This do not interfer in my believings and I know, this happened for a purpose... but it's still sad...
sorry man, maybe she'll calm down and wanna talk in a few days
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Posted: January 07 2010 at 04:20
jampa17 wrote:
^ Yes Dean, I know maybe excuse wasn't the accurate word, not even "justification" because you are the one that don't want to justify that particular subject right...??? but my lack of accurate terms is understandable as english is not my native language, but I understand your point... just don't share that "there's nothing to prove" I mean... I prefer to say that there's too much to understand yet... in a scientific way... for example, what can you say about the people who actually can walk over the water or levitate, I don't remember what's your position in that matter and I tell you... I don't believe in magicians but there's people who can do that kind of things, most of them in different cultures by learning a lot and been very weird in their life habbits, don't eating nothing and been on meditation all the time and all that...
I'm not going to tell you that people cannot walk on water or levitate, regardless of how little the eat or how airy their thoughts are - I'm going to ask you to show me something, anything, that says they can - I don't want proof, just any accounts you can find of people walking on water or levitating - the only proviso is it had to have happened in recent history.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 23:15
I just want to tell you that my girl has just send me to hell... and now I feel brokenhearted... it's sad and it's horrible and I don't want to make a new pathetic thread of been lonely so I just came to say this words... This do not interfer in my believings and I know, this happened for a purpose... but it's still sad...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 20:05
stonebeard wrote:
God, I love it when people bring up premonitions and the paranormal and stuff like thst.
It's kinda the same as with miracles.
If (premonitions / miracles) are true, then what does that mean for the real world? 99.99% of the time, science seems to explain what we normally experience day to day, but that missing part...what...is the day God or some silly supernatural for just said "Hey, I'm screwing with you today!"? There are implications that most people don't think about. Re: my ignored post on miracles however many mundane pages ago. Similar circumstances apply to the paranormal discussion.
I only told what I witnesed, I don't try to explain it.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 18:51
^ that's not a million miles from the point I made earlier "...it is always easier to take the one that best fits your particular beliefs, or more accurately, the one that gives us most comfort"
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 18:40
Yeah.
*bump*
me wrote:
suppose someone is healed without a good scientific reason. How are we supposed to react to that? What if he didn't go to worship at an icon or anything? What if there's no connection to any religion, but he is healed without an attributable cause?
In the opposite situation, what if a person is healed in the same way, but had recently prayed or made a religious pilgrimage or something. What should we believe out of this scenario? Should we take it then that all the tenets of his religion are true? Or should we take it that God exists? Well then, what specifically could this God do, besides apparently healing someone?
I'm sure there are many instances of people from all different religions and maybe even no religion being healed without scientific explanation. I think this is almost meaningless, though, even supposing there was a Godly explanation for it. If someone was healed through religion, we have no way of knowing what to do or what to believe out of those circumstances.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 15:50
God, I love it when people bring up premonitions and the paranormal and stuff like thst.
It's kinda the same as with miracles.
If (premonitions / miracles) are true, then what does that mean for the real world? 99.99% of the time, science seems to explain what we normally experience day to day, but that missing part...what...is the day God or some silly supernatural for just said "Hey, I'm screwing with you today!"? There are implications that most people don't think about. Re: my ignored post on miracles however many mundane pages ago. Similar circumstances apply to the paranormal discussion.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 14:44
^ Yes Dean, I know maybe excuse wasn't the accurate word, not even "justification" because you are the one that don't want to justify that particular subject right...??? but my lack of accurate terms is understandable as english is not my native language, but I understand your point... just don't share that "there's nothing to prove" I mean... I prefer to say that there's too much to understand yet... in a scientific way... for example, what can you say about the people who actually can walk over the water or levitate, I don't remember what's your position in that matter and I tell you... I don't believe in magicians but there's people who can do that kind of things, most of them in different cultures by learning a lot and been very weird in their life habbits, don't eating nothing and been on meditation all the time and all that...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 13:50
"We cannot understand what isn't there - it is illogical - the burden of proof is on the people who claim these things are real - I do not have to prove they are halucinations, they have to prove to me that they are not halucinations."
Just the sentence I was responding to...
Btw...dreams are cool. I think I'll start a thread on those and maybe people will quit flogging this carcass or caracas or whatever. Of course those on the PM team like that kind of thing so maybe I'll fail.
Edited by Negoba - January 06 2010 at 13:52
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 13:30
Negoba wrote:
I think pigeonholing even dreams as "hallucinations" is an oversimplification.
I don't believe I did squire. I "passed off" premonition as coincidence, not hallucination.
Negoba wrote:
My particular example a few pages back has no scientific explanation except unbelievably improbable coincidence. As I said before, it doesn't prove anything. It's just wierd.
The odd thing about dreams is their lack of persistence - we forget 90% of our dreams within 10 minutes of waking. To remember a particular dream is remarkable enough - that it has a coincidental follow-on event is again remarkable, wierd I'll accept. But I don't think it can have a direct scientific explanation because it isn't scientific as such.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 13:18
I think pigeonholing even dreams as "hallucinations" is an oversimplification.
My particular example a few pages back has no scientific explanation except unbelievably improbable coincidence. As I said before, it doesn't prove anything. It's just wierd.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted: January 06 2010 at 13:13
jampa17 wrote:
I know we can go on this way non of your explanation can satisfy me because you already agree that you have not study this phenomena and that for you it don't worth to try... and as I told you... I do not believe in all of these matters that I mentioned, just put out there just to prove that not everything can be understandable -at least, not yet- by science... and that's my point through all this... you can say all of these are just halucinations... but that's an excuse Dean... because you are the one who want proof, and you don't have conclussion on the matter... so, for me... it's an excuse...
It has never been my intention to satisfy you or to convince you that my explanations are better or more believable than yours.
The scientific study of the paranormal and parapsychological has been on the decline for many years such that very few creditable public universities and research establishments are active in this field. After 30+ years of academic research nothing has ever been found that supports any case of paranormal activity as being valid. We cannot understand what isn't there - it is illogical - the burden of proof is on the people who claim these things are real - I do not have to prove they are halucinations, they have to prove to me that they are not halucinations.
I think your definition of "excuse" is different to mine so I'll stop here.
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Negoba wrote:
I "passed off" premonition as coincidence, not hallucination. 
