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ProgressivexGrooves View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Wave Of Progressive Metal - NWOPM
    Posted: July 22 2010 at 05:40
Dear viewers and ProgArchives members,

Please help me define the rise of a new musical style ...

I think we all agree <Progressive Music> is about adventure / discovering new musical horizons.
Lately there were some album releases who have in common:

- slightly avantgarde-ish
- MANY (hard) metal ingredients
- vocals melodic and / or harsh
- many odd time signature changes

Like around 1979 / 1980 the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal was on the rise !
Now around 2009 / 2010 can we define the New Wave Of Progressive Metal ?

Some guiding albums (in alphabetical order):
* Dysrhythmia - Pretest (2003) early definition of NWOPM
* ISIS - Wavering radiant (2009)
* Karnivool - Sound awake (2010)
* Mantric - Descent (2010)
* Orpheus - Philosopher of the sublime (2009)
* Rosetta - Determinism of morality (2010)
* The Dreaming Tree - Progress has no patience (2010)
* Utopia - Ice and knives (2010)

Planning to make two *special edition* radioshows on Progressive X Grooves radio in september 2010.
Please help me define and share your views ! Wink
Pieter_V
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 05:46
Now around 2009 / 2010 can we define the New Wave Of Progressive Metal ? - No, prog metal was in it's peak in late 90's and early '00, since then prog metal was for me at least in decline. Only few albums manage to cross the border of originality. Second, the albums you mentioned above are not prog metal, maybe first one, but the rest are not entirely in this subgenre.Good luck with your radio show
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2010 at 06:02
By Prog Archives sub genere Progressive Metal, b_olariu is right, it peaked around the end of the 90's/start of the 2000's and is now littered by sound a likes. Of the other bands you mentioned, Rosetta and Isis are part of the Post Metal that was started in the mid-to-late 90's by Neurosis and really began to work up a head of steam in the early 2000's, but I think its reached a plateau now as well. Dysrhythmia are a tech metal band, another sub genre thats been around for a while.
 
In short, there is no new wave, many of the styles that are found in the three metal sub genres on this site were conceived and developed back in the 90's, there's just an increasing number of bands turning up these days as prog gets starts to find a bit more popularity.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2010 at 02:01
Thanks B_Olariu ans Sleeper for your replies !

I think we have sometimes too many labels for Progressive Music subgenres ?

<New Wave Of Progressive Metal> or <NWOPM>

This sounds like something to be remembered ... listen to the avant garde-ish elements in the bands I mentioned before. That is one of the things we can recognise if they are part of the <NWOPM> movement Big smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2010 at 11:13
For me, Diablo Swing Orchestra is one of the most innovative prog metal bands, but is considered "extreme-prog metal" here. Don't know, but I found few prog metal bands that have really evolve from the original form. O.S.I. maybe, because they focus more in the electronic vibe of things, looping and keyboards layering, but More than that, Prog Metal has not evolve that much...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2010 at 16:29
Originally posted by ProgressivexGrooves ProgressivexGrooves wrote:

Thanks B_Olariu ans Sleeper for your replies !I think we have sometimes too many labels for Progressive Music subgenres ?<New Wave Of Progressive Metal> or <NWOPM>This sounds like something to be remembered ... listen to the avant garde-ish elements in the bands I mentioned before. That is one of the things we can recognise if they are part of the <NWOPM> movement Big smile

There arent any avant moments in any of the bands you mentioned. If you want that you'll have to try maudlin of the Well, Unexpect, Tusk, The Pax Cecilia, Deathspell Omega and others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 02:18
Somebody please remind me again why you can't describe a band like Isis as progressive metal, simply because they fall under the post metal categorisation?

Sorry if I'm missing something crucially obvious - but they are undoubtedly a metal band, and if on the Archives they are presumably progressive too! Therefore, whilst 'post metal' might give a more accurate description of their style, why is it so fundamentally wrong to call them progressive metal, when both constituents of such a labelling are (by PA's reckoning) undeniably there? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 06:05
Originally posted by Fieldofsorrow Fieldofsorrow wrote:

Somebody please remind me again why you can't describe a band like Isis as progressive metal, simply because they fall under the post metal categorisation?
Sorry if I'm missing something crucially obvious - but they are undoubtedly a metal band, and if on the Archives they are presumably progressive too! Therefore, whilst 'post metal' might give a more accurate description of their style, why is it so fundamentally wrong to call them progressive metal, when both constituents of such a labelling are (by PA's reckoning) undeniably there? 

They were very much progressive, but under no circumstances can thy be considered part of a "new wave". They came in 99, were the leading lights in developing Post metal, and as of May this year have disbanded to avoid becoming stale. Thats an 11 year career, so clearly they're not new.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 13:11
Thanks Jampa and Sleeper for the new bands ... I will check them out later !

Does anyone know or help me find some answers ? What I am trying to find out:

Are there progressive bands from the the last two years that add something NEW and INNOVATING
to the Progressive (Metal) style ?


Likewise in the 70´s and 80´s there was already Heavy Metal with ¨classic¨ bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin etc. Than around 1979 / 1980 the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal - NWOBHM with ¨new¨ bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon, Raven etc.

These ¨new¨ bands showed the ¨older¨ bands  ¨new¨ style elements:

* playing faster
* playing louder
* some ¨do-it-yourself¨ on independent labels etc.

Can we see something like that in Progressive Music ?


Thanks for thinking along with me
Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 13:21
Without deliberately being a douche, Karnivool aren't that metal and Isis and Rosetta are already defined as post-metal by many people. 
And lo, the mighty riffage was played and it was good


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2010 at 16:41
^ No, Karnivool aren't that metal, but they are still within the style's boundaries, I think. Wikipedia and I agree anyway. Tongue

Thanks, Sleeper, I never believed Isis to belong to a new wave or anything. It's just as an aside note to this thread that post metal is in fact a sub-genre of progressive metal, and when discussing it as though it is independent of that category, it strikes me as very similar to classifying an orange outside of the fruit family.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 08:32
I'd call it a sub-genre of post-rock really. Isis are more post-rock with metal elements than prog metal with post-rock elements. 
And lo, the mighty riffage was played and it was good


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 09:15
I'm a newby on thisWacko, the most inovative metal sound I ever heard was Psychotic WaltzRawks. For me that is NWOPMThumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 10:42
Originally posted by ProgressivexGrooves ProgressivexGrooves wrote:

Thanks Jampa and Sleeper for the new bands ... I will check them out later !

Does anyone know or help me find some answers ? What I am trying to find out:

Are there progressive bands from the the last two years that add something NEW and INNOVATING
to the Progressive (Metal) style ?


Likewise in the 70´s and 80´s there was already Heavy Metal with ¨classic¨ bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin etc. Than around 1979 / 1980 the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal - NWOBHM with ¨new¨ bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon, Raven etc.

These ¨new¨ bands showed the ¨older¨ bands  ¨new¨ style elements:

* playing faster
* playing louder
* some ¨do-it-yourself¨ on independent labels etc.

Can we see something like that in Progressive Music ?


Thanks for thinking along with me
Wink
To be honest, in most sub genres of prog, not just the metal ones, a new band that has something different to offer appears almost every year, though not all of them gain much success. There's no group of bands that have recently turned up suddenly showing a new way of doing things.
 
There was a new wave, and it applies to prog in general and not just the metal bands, but it really started about 1995 and reached its stride around 97, with everything since riding the crest of this wave and building on the accomplishments of those first bands, which is why I consider the last decade to have been a new golden age of prog, especilly since most bands dont maintaine their edge for too long but as one band falls by the wayside another rises to take its place.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 10:45
Originally posted by Fieldofsorrow Fieldofsorrow wrote:

^ No, Karnivool aren't that metal, but they are still within the style's boundaries, I think. Wikipedia and I agree anyway. Tongue

Thanks, Sleeper, I never believed Isis to belong to a new wave or anything. It's just as an aside note to this thread that post metal is in fact a sub-genre of progressive metal, and when discussing it as though it is independent of that category, it strikes me as very similar to classifying an orange outside of the fruit family.


Generally when I say "progressive metal" I'm talking about all three of the subs we have here.
 
Agree with you about Karnivool, very heavy but not really metal. 
 
Originally posted by Citizen Erased Citizen Erased wrote:

]
I'd call it a sub-genre of post-rock really. Isis are more post-rock with metal elements than prog metal with post-rock elements. 
To me its the metal counterpart of Post-Rock, but the genre in general takes as much from sludg metal as it does from Post Rock.
 
Originally posted by Klogg Klogg wrote:

I'm a newby on thisWacko, the most inovative metal sound I ever heard was Psychotic WaltzRawks. For me that is NWOPMThumbs Up
Nah, they're in the first wave of prog metal, contempories of Dream Theater and Sieges Even.


Edited by sleeper - July 27 2010 at 10:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 11:41
Originally posted by Citizen Erased Citizen Erased wrote:

I'd call it a sub-genre of post-rock really. Isis are more post-rock with metal elements than prog metal with post-rock elements. 

If you're talking about specific attributes of genre, I agree with you. But the word 'progressive' is something much broader than that, and there's no doubt that post rock is a progressive genre, otherwise PA wouldn't have it listed here as one.

Sleeper, what do you believe best categorises Karnivool? I'm not entirely sure we do agree! When I say they're not that metal, I simply mean they don't really feel like metalhead's music. I confess I did not make that clear. I'd still put them on the outskirts of the style, with their glints of Meshuggah and Tool... Help me out.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 11:42
Mastodon and Gojira would I say belongs to the New Wave of Progressive metal, Mastodon is also part of the New wave of American metal, with Killswitch Engage, Disturbed, Chimaira, the Dillinger Escape Plan and Lamb of God 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 17:24
Originally posted by Fieldofsorrow Fieldofsorrow wrote:

Originally posted by Citizen Erased Citizen Erased wrote:

I'd call it a sub-genre of post-rock really. Isis are more post-rock with metal elements than prog metal with post-rock elements. 

If you're talking about specific attributes of genre, I agree with you. But the word 'progressive' is something much broader than that, and there's no doubt that post rock is a progressive genre, otherwise PA wouldn't have it listed here as one.

Sleeper, what do you believe best categorises Karnivool? I'm not entirely sure we do agree! When I say they're not that metal, I simply mean they don't really feel like metalhead's music. I confess I did not make that clear. I'd still put them on the outskirts of the style, with their glints of Meshuggah and Tool... Help me out.

Smile
I think Heavy Prog were we have them now is as gooda  description of their music as your likely to get. I dont hear any Meshuggah influence in their music, though I certainly get the Tool reference but they certainly dont feel like a metal band to me.


Edited by sleeper - July 27 2010 at 17:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 18:35
Quote ...
To be honest, in most sub genres of prog, not just the metal ones, a new band that has something different to offer appears almost every year, though not all of them gain much success. There's no group of bands that have recently turned up suddenly showing a new way of doing things.
 
Every year? ... how about every week?
 
What's worse? ... they all sound the same!
 
How progressive is that?
 
Not at all! 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2010 at 18:55
Originally posted by ProgressivexGrooves ProgressivexGrooves wrote:

Thanks Jampa and Sleeper for the new bands ... I will check them out later !

Does anyone know or help me find some answers ? What I am trying to find out:

Are there progressive bands from the the last two years that add something NEW and INNOVATING
to the Progressive (Metal) style ?


Likewise in the 70´s and 80´s there was already Heavy Metal with ¨classic¨ bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin etc. Than around 1979 / 1980 the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal - NWOBHM with ¨new¨ bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon, Raven etc.

These ¨new¨ bands showed the ¨older¨ bands  ¨new¨ style elements:

* playing faster
* playing louder
* some ¨do-it-yourself¨ on independent labels etc.

Can we see something like that in Progressive Music ?


Thanks for thinking along with me
Wink
Rewinding a little - I think NWOBHM was a bit of a misnomer since there wasn't an Old Wave Of British Heavy Metal to precede them, bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin weren't Heavy Metal, nor were Budgie (a big influence on NWOBHM), they were Heavy Rock. NWOBHM was a phrase invented by Barton to sell copies of Sounds (and later Kerrang!).
 
If there is ever going to be a New Wave Of Progressive Metal then it's going to be something radically different to what we're listening to now, but from what I've heard over the past 10 years, it's not here yet.
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