Al Stewart for prog related |
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LionRocker
Forum Groupie Joined: April 03 2010 Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Topic: Al Stewart for prog related Posted: July 26 2010 at 21:19 |
I would like to politely crusade for folk artist Al Stewart to be part of the Archives marked as "Prog Related". Stewart's second album, "Love Chronicles" which features "prog related" inductees, Jimmy Page and Richard Thompson (who both contribute grand guitar work) contains a few multi-part songs including the 18 minute title track which like many like epics before and after it weaves several melodies into a single main composition along with several blazing mini solos courtesy of Page. The eight minute folk piece, "The Ballad Of Mary Foster", also has two different parts of worthy notice.
On Al's "Past, Present, and Future" album, we're given two more epics, the solemn "Nostradamus" and "Roads to Moscow" which are also both multipart and eight and nine minutes, respectively. There is also a concept to very much of this album as well: The World Wars.
These two albums would be considered the most "progressive" by this website's standards but several other songs on several of his other albums contain a decent amount of prog influences, as well. A large amount of his music during the years with Alan Parsons in the producer's chair have an almost Pink Floyd lite quality to his work. The music from these years is generally very melancolic, haunting, and powerful in the same way as Pink Floyd's music during the Roger Water years and in Alan Parsons' own music too. Songs like "Lord Grenville", "Midas Shadow", "Broadway Hotel", (which is also graced with some classical sounding violin work) "One Stage Before", "Life in Dark Water", "The Palace of Versailles", "Modern Times", and "The Dark and the Rolling Sea" all have many of the qualities of Floyd especially just their overall feeling.
Here is what I could scrounge up on youtube to support Al Stewart's induction. The other song "One Stage Before" is an example of the Pink Floydian sound Stewart had achieved with Alan Parsons. There is a creeping feeling of desperation in the song quite like the music in "The Wall" as well as a theatrical quality that is comparable to that aformentioned album and the song's coda features a great Gilmour-esque guitar solo to close it.
I hope this is enough to get one of my favorite artists inducted because he also is a very quality and intelligent songwriter as well as he is underrated and ignored for his talents and efforts. (His small fame is soley based off his popular radio hit, "Year of the Cat".)
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Ian Stuart
Forum Groupie Joined: February 05 2010 Location: IL USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 00:54 |
I couldn't agree more; and Roads To Moscow is a perfect example. I think Al is nothing short of masterful - even if you limited your consideration to his lyrics! (But who would?) Without getting into the debate over the definition of "progressive" I'd have to say not all of his stuff is "prog" ... but the same is true of many entrants to this site - 'proto-prog' and otherwise.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:01 |
AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14256 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 03:46 |
Yeah I loved On The Border from Year of the Cat and always thought it was his best work - interesting for prog related. i can see it working perhaps
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LionRocker
Forum Groupie Joined: April 03 2010 Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 10:53 |
So has Al already been denied entry according to these threads? Or is he still being considered? How much info (or proof?) do you need to provide for artist to be accepted anyway?
And apologies, mr. mod, I didn't even think of searching.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 10:55 |
No apology needed LR, I just posted the links for reference. I think most of them have been closed now anyway (they are closed after about 6 months if memory serves, to maintain the efficiency of the site).
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8854 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 14:39 |
absolutely class A folk singer/songwriter who, like virtually all serious artists active in the 70s, was influenced by prog and had some prog adventures, but he just doesn't seem to me to be more than peripherally involved along with other greats from the time like Cat Stevens, Chris De Burgh, Nick Drake.
On a side note, while it might work for some people on the site, comparing his most "prog" work to PINK FLOYD, partly because of the Parsons association, seems like a stretch to me, and a bit of a put down to Al. He did what he did, and while he can't compare to Floyd for atmosphere, I daresay he out storytells them by a wide margin. Plus I feel happy about life after I hear "Time Passages" or "One Stage Before" Edited by kenethlevine - July 27 2010 at 14:40 |
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halabalushindigus
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 05 2009 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
Posted: July 27 2010 at 15:58 |
Al has a way of blending melodies in sort of foreign structure, take "Timeless Skies" which is in the key of Eflat and of course Peter White with his spanish stlye is a master
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assume the power 1586/14.3 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12799 |
Posted: July 28 2010 at 07:07 |
Absolutely - prog folk in the early days of progressive music, e.g. the notorious Bedsitting Chronicles (an LP side length epic which some might argue follows on from Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant)
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65938 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 12:58 |
Prog magazine recently had an article, which I read this morning, asking if Al Stewart was Prog or not. I've seen the name from time to time, but I am pretty certain that I have never heard anything from him. Checking out Year of the Cat as I type this and I don't recall having ever heard it before. The album Past, Present and Future and the song with Jimmy Page sound like ones that I need to check out.
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 15:21 |
So what verdict did the article come up with? I'm curious because every time he gets recommended (and there have been many) I creep a little closer to saying 'yes' to Prog Folk and have just been waiting for the right pitch to try and make it happen. Seems silly Dave Cousins, Roy Harper, John Martyn and Robin Williamson (solo) are here but Stewart is not. Only other one missing is Davey Graham. |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65938 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 15:33 |
In the article the author makes his case for why he should be considered a prog artist because of songs like Year of the Cat and albums like Past, Present and Future amongst other things. They interviewed Al Stewart and he said he is surprised to be included in a Prog magazine because those are artists like Camel. Interesting tidbit about Al Stewart growing up around Robert Fripp and taking guitar lessons from him. The article asks for the readers' opinions and it seems as though half of the readers think that yes he is prog and half think that no he isn't, so really not much of an answer as to whether or not he is prog.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 17:35 |
if the question has to be asked.. then it is a no brainer if one has half a brain and enough maturity to relealize there are as many notions as to what prog is and is not, as there are fans of the music. The site is a database, not a playpen for elitists and snobs.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26133 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 19:17 |
I thought it was a playpen.
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24391 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 19:20 |
To tell you the truth, the site is a much more civilized place now than it was years ago, when we first joined. Now it is possible to have a discussion about potentially controversial additions without someone calling you names and implying you have some hidden agenda. |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 19:49 |
the point that cannot be missed that has to be considered is if the question.. even has an answer Scott. Much less a definitive answer. Of course not. The real answer a private one, one each listener determines on one's own? As I posted earlier, if the question has to be seriously asked, then common sense says the band is a no brainer for addition. This is a long running question and is never going to go away.. that again is clue it has substantial merit. So I'll put it out there... admin team. I've been away. I guess I will get sucked back in. Al Stewart. For PR. Vote on it, accept it and I'll do the addition. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: October 30 2014 at 21:28 |
(Hello Micky & Raff) If an artist who released albums in the 1970s wasn't considered to be Prog back then no amount of revisionism will make them Prog now. Sure the definition of what is Prog has been redrawn and rewritten in the intervening 40 years but the effect of that change in our modern perspective only applies to the bands and artist that caused that revision and redefinition, it cannot and should not be applied retrospectively regardless of the subgenre in question, even Prog Related.
[A 1973 Ford Mustang Mach 1 5ltr V8 developed 135 hp, had a top speed of 110 mph and a 0-60 of 9.7 seconds and back then was called a "Muscle Car". Today a 2014 Kia Ceed GT 1.6ltr develops 201hp, has a top speed of 147 mph and a 0-62 to 7.4 seconds, no one would call that a "Muscle Car" and no one would call a Mach 1 a "Hot Hatch". Definitions only apply to the era in which they were defined.] Therefore it is not a "no brainer for addition", nor is it "common sense", if the question has been asked retrospectively it could mean that someone has applied this modern redefinition inappropriately rather than look at it in the correct context. We are here to document history, not to rewrite it. However, the question asked by this thread back in 2010 was not "Is Al Stewart Prog?" but "Is Al Stewart Prog Related?" ... and that question has merit without having a dig at "elitists and snobs", (inclusiveness stretches sideways and forwards, but not backwards), because Al Stewart was not creating music in a vacuum, certainly the two albums mentioned (Past, Present & Future and Year Of The Cat) would have been viewed as Prog Related back in 1973-6 if such a category existed (which it didn't). Since 2010 we have ratified what we mean by "Prog Related", it is no longer the vague catch-all dumping-ground it once was. This was a necessary re-think of PR since by the old methodology the number of artists that could be legitimately included would quickly surpass the total number of "Progressive" artists included on this site and we would become a second-class RYM site instead of a first-class Prog Rock site. While all other subs edge towards inclusiveness (which they inevitably have, or will), PR is deliberately less-inclusive (but not exclusive, by definition Prog Related can never be exclusive). So the question "Is Al Stewart Prog Related?" has experienced a change of emphasis, (regardless of any shift in our modern perception of "what is Prog"), towards a more meaningful context-related question that weighs up the merits of the suggestion from a historical perspective and not from a modern perspective.
Edited by Dean - October 30 2014 at 21:28 |
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