Nightwish on the progarchives???

maidenrulez wrote: Please i dont understand the connection Nightwish is utter crap and the worst pop metal band ever. Even you have to admit maiden being more proggish that nightwish

They're not utter crap, please. They're not pop metal either, it's just that gothic has become more mainstream compatible recently. But I agree that they are hardly progressive.

Can any Nightwish fan give me a good starting point to explore their progressiveness?

maidenrulez wrote: I have always thought nightwish was utter crap even before they went commercial but that is just my opinion anyway i think there are too many non progressive standard metal bands on this site and yet there are many that calls mars volta and dream theater barely prog.  And i personally dont see that queensryche all that progressive eihter although operation mindcrime is great it is hardly prog.

There's a whole bunch of classical inspired metal bands that I don't like, but many others do: Nightwish, Therion, Haggard, 3rd And The Mortal, ... I always suspect that their fans have not heard better alternatives, but maybe I'm just wrong.

As for their inclusion on this website, it's ok by me. There is no definitve authority that you can ask "Is this Prog" and then receive a "yes" or a "no". In case of Queensryche, you're preaching to the choir here, I agree completely. BUT there is a unique quality about Operation: Mindcrime, Promised Land and Tribe, I'd say there are definitively progressive tendencies. Add to that the fact that they heavily influenced the 90s prog metal. Furthermore many prog metal fans will agree that it is a band one has to know, if he wants to see the prog metal genre for what it really is. That all tells me that they must be included.

Returning to the original topic: I don't think any of what I said about Queensryche applies to Nightwish 

What Maiden songs are progressive (in your opinion)?

I LOVE Iron Maiden but I don't think I would classify them as "Prog-Metal". They have great songs with extended time frames but they aren't TOO far away from bands like Metallica and Megadeth which I definitely would not put in the prog-metal category.

However, I will say that bands like Nightwish and Savatage ARE on the site and they are not much more prog-metal then Maiden IMO.

Man Overboard wrote: I think the prog-metal community has embraced power-metal for its symphonic elements, but...  most of the time, I don't feel that power-metal is prog.  I DO think that prog-metal is definitely prog, though.

I agree on the Power Metal problem, but certain albums can be progressive, too. I'm thinking about Blind Guardian: Nightfall In Middle Earth and Kamelot: The Black Halo.

Maidenrulez, I think quite a lot of people agree with you on this Nightwish thing, as there is absolutely nothing prog in their music. Regarding this matter, I have been told that once a band is accepted to the archives, it will stay there, no matter what happens. And you're just going to get loads of angry posts by NW fans if you go on with this...

You all know this site wil become infested with 14 year old depressed girls who love nightwish..Damn you all...Damn you all to hell...

 

Charlton Heston style rant over..

MikeEnRegalia wrote: There's a whole bunch of classical inspired metal bands that I don't like, but many others do: Nightwish, Therion, Haggard, 3rd And The Mortal, ... I always suspect that their fans have not heard better alternatives, but maybe I'm just wrong.

http://thomasr.nvg.org/mortal.info/av.htm - check the last four audio samples on that - it goes way beyond the scope of standard classically inspired metal bands. Or even metal, for that matter.

dalt99 wrote: I LOVE Iron Maiden but I don't think I would classify them as "Prog-Metal". They have great songs with extended time frames but they aren't TOO far away from bands like Metallica and Megadeth which I definitely would not put in the prog-metal category. However, I will say that bands like Nightwish and Savatage ARE on the site and they are not much more prog-metal then Maiden IMO.

Er...I was thinking that Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All by Metallica contains some interesting picks that I would label "progressivISH"...in particular I mean:

• The Call of Ktulu
• Orion
• Master of Puppets
• And Justice for All
• To Live is To Die

some of which have been revisited in recent times by Dream Theater...

BiGi wrote: dalt99 wrote: I LOVE Iron Maiden but I don't think I would classify them as "Prog-Metal". They have great songs with extended time frames but they aren't TOO far away from bands like Metallica and Megadeth which I definitely would not put in the prog-metal category. However, I will say that bands like Nightwish and Savatage ARE on the site and they are not much more prog-metal then Maiden IMO. Er...I was thinking that Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All by Metallica contains some interesting picks that I would label "progressivISH"...in particular I mean: The Call of Ktulu Orion Master of Puppets And Justice for All To Live is To Die some of which have been revisited in recent times by Dream Theater...

I TOTALLY agree with you, however do you think Metallica should be called a prog-metal band OVERALL or a heavy metal band. Nothing of their music from the 90's to today would really be classified as prog-metal and the songs you mentioned aren't more prog then metal really. Just a "proggish" tone to them.

Like I said, if we include Metallica and Megadeth we might as well include ALL heavy metal groups and power-metal groups. I personally feel that a modern era band (1985-2005) shouldn't be entered here unless their music is at least 50% prog. Of course, who is going to determine what "prog" is by definition?