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Joined: June 24 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Posted: February 20 2011 at 09:04
I know that prog's not the best place to look for this, but I despise all those 'love songs in pop music'.
Teen angst is probably what I feel, I guess.
Some Blackfield has suited me somewhat, Marillion is good, Peter Hamill is good, those Genesis tracks I've always thought as 'happy or optimistic in the end'.
But listening through the other suggestions at the moment.
Joined: December 11 2010
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 256
Posted: February 20 2011 at 10:30
Try Lost Without a Trace by Wigwam. That song fits exactly what your looking for. Losing Hold and Fairyport (in the same album) also are kind of what you might be looking for.
Once upon a time there was some writing on the wall we all ignored, until the time that there was war and feasts of famine at our door
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16165
Posted: February 23 2011 at 15:29
The Dark Elf wrote:
Only if one wishes to end the thread due to Peter Hammill's overwrought melodramatics. I wince every time I hear him sing.
May I make a suggestion that the next time you listen to Peter that you make a point of not thinking that he is singing? ... he's just a poet with words ... and comparing him to a purebred/academic/classic singer that does 4ths, 8ths and 16ths and whatever else ... makes me think that one is comparing him to something that he is not ... at all!
It's not about the singing. It's about the expression, and there are not many that are as strong, direct, and honest as Peter is. Roy Harper would be the only other one I can think of at this moment.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12702
Posted: February 23 2011 at 16:34
moshkito wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Only if one wishes to end the thread due to Peter Hammill's overwrought melodramatics. I wince every time I hear him sing.
May I make a suggestion that the next time you listen to Peter that you make a point of not thinking that he is singing? ... he's just a poet with words ... and comparing him to a purebred/academic/classic singer that does 4ths, 8ths and 16ths and whatever else ... makes me think that one is comparing him to something that he is not ... at all!
It's not about the singing. It's about the expression, and there are not many that are as strong, direct, and honest as Peter is. Roy Harper would be the only other one I can think of at this moment.
Hmmm...so, consider Peter Hammill's singing something other than singing? Bury the obvious in definitions to hide the fact that he is indeed singing? I have heard this argument before. It's the same line used in regards to eating liver: pile onions and ketchup on it and it is much better. No, liver is still liver.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: February 23 2011 at 20:09
The Dark Elf wrote:
moshkito wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Only if one wishes to end the thread due to Peter Hammill's overwrought melodramatics. I wince every time I hear him sing.
May I make a suggestion that the next time you listen to Peter that you make a point of not thinking that he is singing? ... he's just a poet with words ... and comparing him to a purebred/academic/classic singer that does 4ths, 8ths and 16ths and whatever else ... makes me think that one is comparing him to something that he is not ... at all!
It's not about the singing. It's about the expression, and there are not many that are as strong, direct, and honest as Peter is. Roy Harper would be the only other one I can think of at this moment.
Hmmm...so, consider Peter Hammill's singing something other than singing? Bury the obvious in definitions to hide the fact that he is indeed singing? I have heard this argument before. It's the same line used in regards to eating liver: pile onions and ketchup on it and it is much better. No, liver is still liver.
Besides, the point wasn't about 4ths or whatever else but about melodramatics, which is purely a function of emoting. I agree with you. I do like Hammill's singing in some songs but I would have liked him a lot more but for that overwrought quality getting in the way. And with that, I am outta here before the attack of the Baldies.
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: February 24 2011 at 09:23
^Try the VdGG album Still Life Dark Elf, he keeps the histrionic to minimum there (and La Rossa and My Room (Waiting for Wonderland) would fit the OP's description.
Of course, the correct answer is Pain of Slavations Remedy Lane, songs like Fandango, Of Two Beginnings, Chainsling, Undertow and Second Love (maybe even the instrumental Dryad of the Woods) are exactly what is needed.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16165
Posted: February 24 2011 at 15:33
rogerthat wrote:
Besides, the point wasn't about 4ths or whatever else but about melodramatics, which is purely a function of emoting. I agree with you. I do like Hammill's singing in some songs but I would have liked him a lot more but for that overwrought quality getting in the way. And with that, I am outta here before the attack of the Baldies.
I remember when I first heard "The Silent Corner/Empty Stage" about what 35 years ago? ... I sat there kinda stunned ... I don't think anyone can say that expressing himself so strongly ... means they don't care, or that nothing means anything to them personally. It was then that I realized thedifference between "singing" (in a classical sense) and the way that "singing" has always been used in opera, and any other kind of music for 500 years ... and someone's personal expression.
I thought this ... I have no problem with his expression and how he says it ... and what about singing? ... I immediately said to myself ... so what? ... why are we comparing oranges to apples?
In the end, it was about the "inner truth" ... and for Peter that inner expression is about getting it out in the only way he knows how and can ... and I'm not sure that he is as worried about the singing and the notes under it, as he is with getting his emotions and expressions out.
The same went for Damo Suzuki.
It's not so much about the singing, as it is the expression, and if Peter screams he screams and sometimes I am not sure it matters if it is an A or a C under him ... which makes his voice an instrument on its own -- which was a very big thing in those days in theatre circles all in the 60's and then early 70's.
Peter is, a real 20th century poet and it's too bad that he is only thought of as "progressive", because he is as prolific as any other poet out there, and his expression is not writing or singing ... it's just doing it!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12702
Posted: February 24 2011 at 15:59
moshkito wrote:
I remember when I first heard "The Silent Corner/Empty Stage" about what 35 years ago? ... I sat there kinda stunned ... I don't think anyone can say that expressing himself so strongly ... means they don't care, or that nothing means anything to them personally. It was then that I realized thedifference between "singing" (in a classical sense) and the way that "singing" has always been used in opera, and any other kind of music for 500 years ... and someone's personal expression.
I thought this ... I have no problem with his expression and how he says it ... and what about singing? ... I immediately said to myself ... so what? ... why are we comparing oranges to apples?
In the end, it was about the "inner truth" ... and for Peter that inner expression is about getting it out in the only way he knows how and can ... and I'm not sure that he is as worried about the singing and the notes under it, as he is with getting his emotions and expressions out.
The same went for Damo Suzuki.
It's not so much about the singing, as it is the expression, and if Peter screams he screams and sometimes I am not sure it matters if it is an A or a C under him ... which makes his voice an instrument on its own -- which was a very big thing in those days in theatre circles all in the 60's and then early 70's.
Peter is, a real 20th century poet and it's too bad that he is only thought of as "progressive", because he is as prolific as any other poet out there, and his expression is not writing or singing ... it's just doing it!
Moshkito,
I can appreciate your passion for Hammill's style. Really I do. However, to me it detracts from the medium, which is music. In fact, it's rather sad. I've always enjoyed the musical virtuosity of VdGG, but the singing eventually turned me off from each album I've heard. That hasn't changed for 40 years, and I don't see any sudden revelation on the horizon.
But that's okay, I am sure there are many artists I enjoy that would probably sound like nails dragged across the chalkboard to you. Vive la différence!
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: February 24 2011 at 20:13
moshkito wrote:
It's not so much about the singing, as it is the expression, and if Peter screams he screams and sometimes I am not sure it matters if it is an A or a C under him ... which makes his voice an instrument on its own -- which was a very big thing in those days in theatre circles all in the 60's and then early 70's.
I am afraid you still don't get the point or don't want to. Do you understand the English WORD "OVERWROUGHT"? It has nothing to do with correctly hitting an A or a C. For that matter, I don't dig or wasn't justifying operatic singing and that's where that overwrought mode of singing comes from. It's completely unsuitable in rock, at least the way Hammil does it.
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12608
Posted: February 24 2011 at 21:34
"Turn of the Century", by Yes, is such a beautiful sad love song, about the death of the singer's lover. Also, "Hey you" by Pink Floyd, and perhaps a few other songs from "The Wall".
And though I can't understand the lyrics, there's a really sad atmosphere in many Rock Progressivo Italiano songs, mainly Le Orme, and some of Banco del Mutuo Socorsso.
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