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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Ears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog: best documented genre on the web?
    Posted: November 20 2011 at 16:48
There seems to be a lot on the internet about progressive rock, because almost anything is progressive these days. It can be a case of having to sift the wheat from the chaff. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 14:24
I don't have enough time to look at prog (and of course listening to it!), let alone checking sites about other musical genres Unhappy
 
Anyway typically with everything prog, I much prefer quality than quantity, so for sure we must distinguish "best documented" from "most documented", and I guess that's not so easy to measure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 13:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Basic search error there I fear, you have the results for Prog OR Music rather than Prog AND Music - the numbers in red are the results for the latter which gives the truer picture with Classical Music 3 times more "popular" than its nearest rival. Incidentally "Pop Music" yields 50,000,000 hits while "R&B Music" struggles to make 556,000 (thou' "R&B" gives 240,000,000 hits!) .

Actually, as long as I searched each term equally, the same results applied in my example.  I believe the default of Google is Boolean, with "and" inserted. 


However, point taken = different search strategies will generate widely different results.  

This topic could be one of the core classes in the Prog Music B.A. degree curriculum!  Thanks for your thoughtful analysis!  
'nkay I simplified my explanation, I meant searching for the two words "Prog" and "Music" to be adjacent in the same sentence - any other arrangement of the two words on a random page is meaningless (or at least ambiguous).

Search can be a beast!  However, I think we may agree that "prog music" as defined by PA is probably not THE most documented music form on the Internet.  It is still very, very young compared to many others, and I would think rather obscure.   

How many prog songs are played at school dances/proms, or in airport bars, or by marching bands etc.?     We are all quite engaged in thoughtful analysis of this artform, and there are equally driven fans of world music, metal, blues etc.   

I believe that the review of the number of college classes specifically about prog is a good surrogate metric for the study.  I'm willing to be that actual classes for college credit regarding prog are quite rare, at least in the US.   However, I'm shooting from the hip on that one.  It depends upon the faculty & their interests.   I've met some VERY prog-wise faculty over the years, and they can certainly introduce this topic into their curricula. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 12:39
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Basic search error there I fear, you have the results for Prog OR Music rather than Prog AND Music - the numbers in red are the results for the latter which gives the truer picture with Classical Music 3 times more "popular" than its nearest rival. Incidentally "Pop Music" yields 50,000,000 hits while "R&B Music" struggles to make 556,000 (thou' "R&B" gives 240,000,000 hits!) .

Actually, as long as I searched each term equally, the same results applied in my example.  I believe the default of Google is Boolean, with "and" inserted. 


However, point taken = different search strategies will generate widely different results.  

This topic could be one of the core classes in the Prog Music B.A. degree curriculum!  Thanks for your thoughtful analysis!  
'nkay I simplified my explanation, I meant searching for the two words "Prog" and "Music" to be adjacent in the same sentence - any other arrangement of the two words on a random page is meaningless (or at least ambiguous).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 11:57
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Basic search error there I fear, you have the results for Prog OR Music rather than Prog AND Music - the numbers in red are the results for the latter which gives the truer picture with Classical Music 3 times more "popular" than its nearest rival. Incidentally "Pop Music" yields 50,000,000 hits while "R&B Music" struggles to make 556,000 (thou' "R&B" gives 240,000,000 hits!) .

Actually, as long as I searched each term equally, the same results applied in my example.  I believe the default of Google is Boolean, with "and" inserted. 

http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=136861

However, point taken = different search strategies will generate widely different results.  

This topic could be one of the core classes in the Prog Music B.A. degree curriculum!  Thanks for your thoughtful analysis!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thehallway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 10:23

1)   I like rap and have nothing against the genre.

2)   The example wasn't even mine; I was quoting somebody and answering them.

3)   There remains no Rap Archive.

4)   I give up with this forum.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OT Räihälä Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 09:51
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Cry  So, what's the WORST documented genre on the web?  Zeuhl?  Prog punk?  

Contemporary art music is by far the worst documented genre on the web.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2011 at 01:36
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Let's try an experiment in web search using the terms.....I simply put each term into Google's main search engine and looked for the number of hits, which Google approximates as "about."  Here's the result:

"prog music" = 3,380,000 hits on Google  538,000 ("Progressive music"  2,240,000 - "Progressive Rock" 19,800,000  - "Prog Rock" 5,060,000)


"classical music" = 95,600,000 hits on Google 57,200,000


"jazz music" = 76,000,000 hits on Google 12,000,000


"heavy metal music" = 102,000,000 hits on Google  4,680,000 ("Metal Music" 12,500,000)


"rap music" = 75,700,000 hits on Google  18,400,000 ("Hip Hop Music"  18,100,000)

------


....looks like "heavy metal music" to me!  The hits don't say anything except point out the existence of "meta-tags," news hits, websites etc.  However, for all practical purposes, I'd say that prog music lags.  Cry

Basic search error there I fear, you have the results for Prog OR Music rather than Prog AND Music - the numbers in red are the results for the latter which gives the truer picture with Classical Music 3 times more "popular" than its nearest rival. Incidentally "Pop Music" yields 50,000,000 hits while "R&B Music" struggles to make 556,000 (thou' "R&B" gives 240,000,000 hits!) .

Edited by Dean - November 14 2011 at 01:39


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 23:46
I think if you consider how large the listener-base of prog is compared to those other genres prog is doing pretty well for itself.

Jazz and Classical are obviously the best documented genres overall, however most of it is in print.

Metal happens to have a strong base of very passionate fans, many of whom are in the age range (17-30) that is going to be most involved in internet archiving.

I hope rap and related genres can get a good archive going. It would make it so much easier for those of us uninitiated to find a starting point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slaughternalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 23:45
In one place, perhaps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 21:51
Let's try an experiment in web search using the terms.....I simply put each term into Google's main search engine and looked for the number of hits, which Google approximates as "about."  Here's the result:

"prog music" = 3,380,000 hits on Google


"classical music" = 95,600,000 hits on Google


"jazz music" = 76,000,000 hits on Google


"heavy metal music" = 102,000,000 hits on Google


"rap music" = 75,700,000 hits on Google

------


....looks like "heavy metal music" to me!  The hits don't say anything except point out the existence of "meta-tags," news hits, websites etc.  However, for all practical purposes, I'd say that prog music lags.  Cry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 21:37
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Rap audiences aren't the kind of people who will sit and archive, document, compile and compare information on their genre. That's a generalisation, but it has some truth because as you say, there is no Rap Archive, or even many websites that deal with rap alone. Same goes with things like early rock and roll, or '90s boy bands, or those '70s variety acts that dominated Top of the Pops...... because not many people are dedicated to these genres so much as "just quite keen on them". These kinds of music have no geeks, no historians, nobody interested enough to argue about them or make polls. Prog does have such fans, which has benefits and drawbacks.
I see what you mean but I suspect this is tragically inaccurate;  First, it's probably just wrong (though I'm guessing about that)--  I suspect there are emerging some fine books, sites, other media/documentation on the form;   Second, the movement is younger - by about ten years or so ('Rappers Delight' came out in what, '79?) - than Prog or Punk;   And third, I personally know some great HipHop artists in their twenties - smart, educated, highly talented people - who will undoubtedly begin archiving and reminiscing on the genre in about 15 to 20 years much like we do here .   You can count on it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 20:53
TheHallway: That's just wrong. First a vocab item.

"head" (noun) in hip-hop, a serious fan, one who studies the history of the genre, keeps an ear to the underground, listens to albums without skipping tracks, listens to hip-hop alone or when not in a car etc

There's a real thing in hip-hop about "the knowledge", "study the sh*t". I've had hundreds of conversations with heads about all the kinds of things people discuss here about prog. People archive the history, the evolution, discuss all the minutae.

The thing is, because of the whole "keeping it reals my dawg" bullsh*t that plagues hip-hop, this is done almost exclusively orally. Setting it down like a library, no one really wants to do. But they should, it's the kind of thing that would help the genre grow up. There should be a place like PA for serious rap/hip-hop fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 19:07
Surely the musical branch of the Hip-Hop subculture is Hip-Hop, or am I missing something here. Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 18:15
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Yeah, metal would be the most documented.

Rap still lacks a quality database site like PA. Really should have one, especially with a priority given to experimental/alternative stuff.

Rap audiences aren't the kind of people who will sit and archive, document, compile and compare information on their genre. That's a generalisation, but it has some truth because as you say, there is no Rap Archive, or even many websites that deal with rap alone. Same goes with things like early rock and roll, or '90s boy bands, or those '70s variety acts that dominated Top of the Pops...... because not many people are dedicated to these genres so much as "just quite keen on them". These kinds of music have no geeks, no historians, nobody interested enough to argue about them or make polls. Prog does have such fans, which has benefits and drawbacks.



There are many books about the Hip-Hop movement (and Rap as the musical branch of this movement).
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 17:54
That. And 'rap' is not a genre, but a style applied by vocalists in many different genres, ranging from hiphop and reggae to jazz. It's roots can be found in African rhytmic story telling that dates back hundreds of years.

If that were a genre, so would playing a guitar be.... Geek
Even prog is rooted in the blues, at some point...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 16:53

Eh? Why single out Rap? There must be dozens of music styles/genres that do not have a decent online database, listing any of them here seems pretty pointless.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thehallway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 16:00
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Yeah, metal would be the most documented.

Rap still lacks a quality database site like PA. Really should have one, especially with a priority given to experimental/alternative stuff.

Rap audiences aren't the kind of people who will sit and archive, document, compile and compare information on their genre. That's a generalisation, but it has some truth because as you say, there is no Rap Archive, or even many websites that deal with rap alone. Same goes with things like early rock and roll, or '90s boy bands, or those '70s variety acts that dominated Top of the Pops...... because not many people are dedicated to these genres so much as "just quite keen on them". These kinds of music have no geeks, no historians, nobody interested enough to argue about them or make polls. Prog does have such fans, which has benefits and drawbacks.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 05:51
Yeah, metal would be the most documented.

Rap still lacks a quality database site like PA. Really should have one, especially with a priority given to experimental/alternative stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JS19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 05:43
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Originally posted by tupan tupan wrote:

No, I think heavy metal is a bit more documented than prog.

By far, I might add

By 12 year olds, I might also add
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