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rdtprog 
Special Collaborator
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5141
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 Posted: February 26 2012 at 16:04 |
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Snow goose is perfect to put me to sleep, and because i prefer to be awake to enjoy music, i will choose A Trick. Maybe Snow goose in superior in some level to A Trick, but i can't be aware of it, being in a deep sleep stage...
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 16:48 |
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 02:49 |
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Both very good albums, but after many years of listening, Snow Goose comes out as the best for me.
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Sagichim
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 6632
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 04:19 |
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like i suspected in the begining when i casted my camel vote, 'trick' is gonna win!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 04:24 |
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Trick. No contest.
The Snow Goose bores me.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13389
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 05:02 |
I think that people who gets bored by the Snow Goose should have the same feelings with pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother that's the album that I think is more similar to it.
On the other hand I'm usually bored by Genesis in general (except for The Lamb that I really like).
Strange enough the fact that Camel can be seen as midway between Genesis and Floyd. Probably I don't catch the element which gives good feelings to the Genesis lovers and those who are bored by Snow Goose (and Atom) don't catch something else. The strangest thing is that this is probably the most Symphonic album released by Camel and the only one fully instrumental (except for the mute choir on side B)
One comment about rdtprog's sentence: [QUOTE] goose is perfect to put me to sleep, and because i prefer to be awake to enjoy music [QUOTE]
I consider good all the music that can make me sleep in strange positions and with headphones on. It means that it has taken control over my mind and my body.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 05:20 |
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^^^ Perhaps, it is their sense of humour and drama that you have missed? I have heard Genesis described as stately by some of those who are not very fond of them and I have to wonder if that is because their sense of humour has missed its mark with such listeners? On the other hand, Camel sound dead serious to me. On Mirage, they really kick ass but by Snow Goose, they are trying to get symphonic, as you said, so even the one part about them that I liked is gone. They are not rocking anymore, just trying to put together meandering guitar-keyboard excursions that can be very pretty but sometimes not really hold my attention.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13389
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 05:45 |
 rogerthat wrote:
^^^ Perhaps, it is their sense of humour and drama that you have missed? I have heard Genesis described as stately by some of those who are not very fond of them and I have to wonder if that is because their sense of humour has missed its mark with such listeners? On the other hand, Camel sound dead serious to me. On Mirage, they really kick ass but by Snow Goose, they are trying to get symphonic, as you said, so even the one part about them that I liked is gone. They are not rocking anymore, just trying to put together meandering guitar-keyboard excursions that can be very pretty but sometimes not really hold my attention.
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Yes, I don't pay much attention to the lyrics if I'm not involved enough with music. About Camel, I'm with you about the first albums, only I add snow goose and moonmadness to the package. Plus consider Rajaz released in 99 that's very similar to those. Is there lack of rock on Snow Goose? maybe a bit on side B, but the guitar solo on Rhayader goes to town I think rocks enough. More than a technical reason for enjoying only one of the two in the poll, I think it's something more inconscious or subliminal. Camel hit my mind in a way that Genesis don't. I'm not English so when I want to follow the lyrics I need to pay some extra attention. I will retry with Genesis in this way as it's probably worth. As I have written before the only Genesis album that I like is "the lamb" and this is a concept album as well as Rutherford's "Smallcreep's Day" that for me is half of a masterpiece (the side long track).
On the Camel side I suggest matching Snow Goose with Nimrodel. They give me similar sensations, then should you start liking it, I suggest giving a chance to Rajaz.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 05:51 |
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I like Rajaz though not as much as Mirage and a little more than Snow Goose or Moonmadness. So, yeah, I don't really dislike these albums either but I just happen to like Trick...a lot, lot more.
And re Genesis, I am not sure it is just the lyrics. They are probably the most British of the popular prog rock bands from the 70s...their influences in music too are very British. JT, Yes, Camel all seem to have more elements of blues or jazz in their music compared to Genesis. So it depends whether one can relate to that. I know that it turns off some people and for some reason, it appeals to me though I am not British either. It is probably the way some people find Gentle Giant too goofy for their liking while it has never been a problem for me.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13389
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 05:59 |
What you say is very interesting:In the PA forums I have read several times about the "Britishness" of Genesis, and being not British I have never understood really what it means. Probably is something similar to what a friend described to me when I made him listen to Gong's Angel's Egg, when Zero says "Hare Hare Supermarket...Hare Hare London Bus". Something popular but not folk as Phillips "Geese and the Ghost" may be. (another great album from a former Genesis member).
The difference between Bitter Ales and Cider. Both are popular but only Cider is folk.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 06:04 |
Actually, you can trace some links to 'American' music in the case of Gong. They are very psychedelic and there are traces of fusion/jazz rock even in the Radio Gnome years. Allen was also supposed to have been influenced by Sun Ra. In the case of Genesis, I have heard references of Holst and Elgar in terms of their classical influences and they were supposed to have been influenced by other traditional British music as well. The only somewhat 'global' element I can readily detect in their music is the influence of Beatles and they are, yet, a British band. 
Edited by rogerthat - February 27 2012 at 06:05
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 06:07 |
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You would observe that compared to JT, Yes, Camel or ELP, there is not much improvisation in Genesis's music. It is all very tightly arranged and they don't seem to deviate much from the studio versions when they perform these tracks live either. That, once again, points to the absence of much American influence in their music. If they didn't have any electric guitar, they would sound even less like rock and even more British than they do already.
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yanch
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2010
Location: Lowell, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 3247
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 06:12 |
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Trick of a Tale.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 07:36 |
Snow Dog wrote:
wilmon91 wrote:
^ No, no I'm already familiar with Camel. Haven't heard much 70's elevator music though. Wasn't that sort of bossanova oriented? |
No idea |
My friends dad used to have an old VHS tape of 70's German porn. Some of the soundtrack to that sounded like parts of the Snow Goose; apart from the groans, grunts and gasps obviously..
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 07:42 |
Blacksword wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
wilmon91 wrote:
^ No, no I'm already familiar with Camel. Haven't heard much 70's elevator music though. Wasn't that sort of bossanova oriented? |
No idea |
My friends dad used to have an old VHS tape of 70's German porn. Some of the soundtrack to that sounded like parts of the Snow Goose; apart from the groans, grunts and gasps obviously.. |
Sounds like someone got the goose.
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digdug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4707
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 09:17 |
both are 4 star albums for me
Snow Goose gets my vote
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Prog On!
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 10:28 |
Just don't like Phils singing. 
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Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 698
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 12:23 |
Blacksword wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
wilmon91 wrote:
^ No, no I'm already familiar with Camel. Haven't heard much 70's elevator music though. Wasn't that sort of bossanova oriented? |
No idea |
My friends dad used to have an old VHS tape of 70's German porn. Some of the soundtrack to that sounded like parts of the Snow Goose; apart from the groans, grunts and gasps obviously.. |
I don't think it sounded remotely similar. Nor is it similiar to any elevator music. But of course, it's a matter of who is judging. Some people can draw comparisons between a piece of plastic and a diamond and say that it's very similar. But they are fundamentally different. It's a matter of telling the difference between fake and real.
For me the greatness of the album starts with track 3, Rhayader goes to town, and from there it's a series of great songs until track 12. After that there are reprises of themes which aren't that interesting, although I really like Fritha Alone, the minor key piano version.
The first song Rhayader (after the intro) sounds a little naive I think, I remember my sister saying that it sounded like a children orchestra or a childrens musical ... But it's an album with a fairy-tale like atmosphere and romantic style, it isn't rock'n roll. It's no use pretending that it is, or accusing it for not being so.
Edited by wilmon91 - February 27 2012 at 12:32
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 12:27 |
Snow Dog wrote:
frippism wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I love Robbery Assault and Battery, this is the first I have heard negative comments about it. Is it widely disliked then? |
I am a hipster to the max! |
I don't really know what that means. |
As in that I don't like the track that everybody else does.
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There be dragons
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 27 2012 at 12:30 |
frippism wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
frippism wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I love Robbery Assault and Battery, this is the first I have heard negative comments about it. Is it widely disliked then? |
I am a hipster to the max! |
I don't really know what that means. |
As in that I don't like the track that everybody else does. |
My point is that you are not alone. Several have made the same observation.
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Equal Ratings: Genesis and Camel
