Prog Definition

dtguitarfan wrote: TODDLER wrote: Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode.   Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.     I think that music is a lot like food - you have a musical diet.  I feel like, living in America, I live in a world where I am surrounded by people who live on a steady diet of Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches.  Not only do they live on it, but they go to restaurants that server a variety of PB&J sandwiches.  Then they come to me and say "dude, you HAVE to try the sandwiches they serve at this restaurant!  They use freshly made bread, and weird stuff like MANGO jelly!"  And I look at them and say "but dude...it's still the same 3 basic ingredients!"

octopus-4 wrote: The Bearded Bard wrote: HolyMoly wrote: Personally, I find it interesting to understand WHY and HOW music works, and music theory makes it clearer to me. There is some method to it besides it just "sounding good". My appreciation comes from a balance of techncal knowledge and subjective "feel". I really would like to know more about the WHYs and HOWs of music. Perhaps a book like 'Music Theory for Dummies' is just the thing for me? Give a look to this...few theory for beginners and a lot of interesting stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Your_Brain_On_Music

Rock is graffiti, prog rock is The Night Watch

No it isn't

dr prog wrote: Modern band have got it all wong. They think prog is about inventing and breaking boundaries. Real prog bands naturally broke them. Their 4 main influences were rock, folk, jazz, classical

Well unless you have been actually listening to enough modern prog, how could you possibly know what the heck you talking about?

Also, if you like modern prog that much why the hell do you spend any time listening to it?


Edited by Slartibartfast - March 10 2012 at 21:05

TODDLER wrote: Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode.   Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.

I agree with this description of prog but I don't know if the stereotype about prog was based on music like Gong.  I am sure fans of Ozric Tentacles are well aware of how much they are influenced by Gong.  If the stereotype was spawned by the likes of ELP, I cannot say it is entirely far fetched.  I have noticed on this board, some people have described prog as a vehicle for virtuosity and in that sense, you can relate to why ELP for some sections of the audience summed up everything that was wrong about prog.  But I have never seen prog that way and I don't believe, from reading John Wetton's thoughts on prog, that he saw it that way. Nor did Fripp.  A certain compositional function and, as you described it, using all those complex elements to evoke a desired feel, is paramount in prog.   It cannot simply be about putting together 20 minute epics with long solo sections for the musicians to show off. If all prog was like that, I would positively HATE the genre too.


Edited by rogerthat - March 11 2012 at 00:02

^Drip 

rogerthat wrote:     It cannot simply be about putting together 20 minute epics with long solo sections for the musicians to show off. If all prog was like that, I would positively HATE the genre too.

What if it were done in the style of country music?  Oh wait, that's the Grateful Dead.

rogerthat wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: rogerthat wrote:     It cannot simply be about putting together 20 minute epics with long solo sections for the musicians to show off. If all prog was like that, I would positively HATE the genre too. What if it were done in the style of country music?  Oh wait, that's the Grateful Dead. I have never heard the Grateful Dead so I can't really relate to that comparison.

found this on tumblr:

Edited by javier0889 - March 11 2012 at 11:59