Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Poll Question: Which do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
20 [40.82%]
29 [59.18%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
ColonelClaypool View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 634 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColonelClaypool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
    Posted: May 18 2012 at 08:54
I did a forum search but didn't find a similar poll so I thought I'd make one myself.
 
Which do you prefer of these two songs, arguably Led Zep's two greatest epics?
 
Personally, I'd say Achilles by a mile, I'm not fond of Kashmir at all.
With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.
Back to Top
Progarchives.com
Advertisement 		Sponsored links (registered users, log in to remove)
 
The Bearded Bard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2012
Location: In the gallery
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5625 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:00
Achilles for me to, but I prefer Stairway to both of these actually.
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:21
Love both, but Achilles Last Stand gets the vote fairly easily here. It's one of their most 'exciting' songs. I love the drive of it, and Bonhams drumming is magnificent.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Barbu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Old Toby's land
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3313 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:59
The mighty Achilles over the mighty Kashmir.
And all the stars were crashing 'round as I laid eyes on what I found...
Back to Top
HolyMoly View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11018 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:03
Two of their finest pieces.  For a long time, Achilles was my favorite Zep song overall, but I think I overplayed it so I'm a little tired of it now.  And Kashmir is just a mindblowing piece, even if it's a little overexposed.  It's very close, but in a pinch I have to say Kashmir is the superior piece.
My other avatar is a Porsche
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10075 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:45
Achilles' Last Stand by far.

Kashmir is a 4 minute song, and then, it's entirely repeated for another 4 minute song. I hate Kashmir.
My Last.fm
Jazz-rock conspiracy? Zappa and Miles played at the same festivals in the
summer of '69 right BEFORE Hot Rats AND Bitches Brew were recorded.
Back to Top
irrelevant View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7374 		Post Options Post Options   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:06
Achilles!   

Superdensecrushloadfactor
Back to Top
HarbouringTheSoul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 21 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1153 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:27
Achilles Last Stand might be their best song (although stuck on one of their worst albums), and I prefer it over the also great Kashmir. Saying that Kashmir is overlong isn't the whole story. Achilles is also a normal-length song drawn out into an "epic". The real question is: Why doesn't Achilles feel overlong despite being overlong?
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10075 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:34
It's a much more well written song than Kashmir. Also, Kasmir is slower, so that may add to the overlong feeling.

Kashmir literally repeats the first 4 minutes, whereas Achilles' does not do something so blatant. There are different things that happen.
My Last.fm
Jazz-rock conspiracy? Zappa and Miles played at the same festivals in the
summer of '69 right BEFORE Hot Rats AND Bitches Brew were recorded.
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:51

For me, Kashmir is the best tune what Led Zep ever made..
Back to Top
dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2011
Location: AU
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 947 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dreadpirateroberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:06
Achilles' Last Stand  - action packed, the layered approach that JP was so good at is on full display here.
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
JazzMusicArchives.
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Sparks, NV, USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7334 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:18
Kashmir. The Zeps going Mid-Eastern? And it works? Cool ! 

Achilles' Last Stand? I must say that the intro to the song is legenwait for it ....


... dary. But the main body of the song is really tedious. They run a very limited set of ideas across the span of 10 minutes. Christ. But the foreign power of Kashmir just barely gets tiresome compared to Achilles.

Voted for Kashmir.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 18 2012 at 12:20
"Composing itself, in a way, is a simplifying process, just trying to pick some (strands?) out [of] the clamour in the head." - Robert Wyatt.

Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23412 		Post Options Post Options   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:34
Originally posted by darkshade

Achilles' Last Stand by far.

Kashmir is a 4 minute song, and then, it's entirely repeated for another 4 minute song. I hate Kashmir.


In fact it's less than that - it's a 20 seconds bit that keeps being repeated. Page himself said this in an interview bit I streamed years ago on their official website, and he plays the the on the acoustic guitar to prove his point.

Kashmir has though Plant's best lyrics (or my favourite, at least), and it's very evocative.

But I would still go for Achilles'.
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Sparks, NV, USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7334 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:52
^ 20 seconds is a bit of a stretch ... or, should I say, a bit of a compression. There have to be at least four different musical ideas on it, ... and Achilles suffers the same problem.
"Composing itself, in a way, is a simplifying process, just trying to pick some (strands?) out [of] the clamour in the head." - Robert Wyatt.

Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23412 		Post Options Post Options   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 01:32
^ of course. But most musicians will narrow it down to the main theme when they're asked what a certain piece essentially is. On Kashmir they do build a bit on it, but much less than what they normally did - which makes it so special in the Zepp cannon, too (IMO). 
Back to Top
Fox On The Rocks View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fox On The Rocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 11:52
Achilles by far. Kashmir bores me most of the time. Achilles is an exciting, daring, epic piece of music - one of my favourites from Zep. 
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1545 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 17:15
Kashmir. I love both songs, but I think Kashmir has more of a sweep and grandeur. Great drums on Achilles though.
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3752 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:11
Two of my favourite Zeppeling songs, along with Stairway to Heaven, and No Quarter. Somehow I feel like voting for Achilles, but I could just as well have voted the other way.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3752 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:14
Originally posted by darkshade

Achilles' Last Stand by far.Kashmir is a 4 minute song, and then, it's entirely repeated for another 4 minute song. I hate Kashmir.



Perhaps it would be interesting for you to hear the live version presented by Jimmy Page and Robert Plant on their "Unledded, No Quarter" album (some sort of "Unplugged"), that one doesn't repeat the main melody so much. As a matter of fact, it begins very quietley for a few minutes, only with the vocals and soft instruments, and then starts with the main melody, and so on.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Online Status: Online
Posts: 43546 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:41
What's amazing is that they actually played ALS in concert almost every night on the '77 tour (and again in '79 for Knebworth I think).   Though it often was a mess, they had the balls to perform such a difficult, physically demanding (I worked the piece out and performed it once with a band, it's a killer) and lengthy piece in front of huge audiences is a testament to their courage and skill as a band.

Hard choice, it's a matter of musical taste.   I'll vote with Achilles.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.