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tamijo View Drop Down
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 07:40
Not only modern "prog metal" ballads are cheesie, we also got some cheese dripping Anderson song along the way.
Infact i was begging my record dealer, to get me the first edition vinyl, instead of the second edition he had on stock.
Just because i wanted the otherwise great album, not to start with this. 
 
 
 
I was crazy about Yes/Anderson, back then, but this and a few other tracks was too slimy.
Nowadays i generally find Yes to be a bit cheesie, but still like to listen to them, now and then.


Edited by tamijo - July 13 2012 at 07:47
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 7946 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:18
Hmm... I think of anything cheesy as being commercialized. Frank Zappa expounds upon the term cheese inside one of his album jackets. I can't remember which album, You Are What You Is maybe. It's been a long time since I read it, but it still guides my interpretation of the word.
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Points: 775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:42
Return of the Giant Hogweed by Genesis comes to my mind.
It's such a fun song
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 09:46
Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Return of the Giant Hogweed by Genesis comes to my mind.
It's such a fun song

But  not "cheesy"
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 10:53
I think of cheesy as being way over the top.  Rick Wakeman performing an ice show of King Arthur comes to mind as the cheesiest of cheesy prog.
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Points: 10964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:21
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hmm... I think of anything cheesy as being commercialized. Frank Zappa expounds upon the term cheese inside one of his album jackets. I can't remember which album, You Are What You Is maybe. It's been a long time since I read it, but it still guides my interpretation of the word.


A little earlier in his discography, but do you remember Suzy Creamcheese?
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Points: 84 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:34
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:


Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hmm... I think of anything cheesy as being commercialized. Frank Zappa expounds upon the term cheese inside one of his album jackets. I can't remember which album, You Are What You Is maybe. It's been a long time since I read it, but it still guides my interpretation of the word.
A little earlier in his discography, but do you remember Suzy Creamcheese?


Suzy Creamcheese, this is your conscience speaking.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:37
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

An example of 'cheesy' prog, imo, would be 'Surrounded' by Dream Theater.

I actually really like that song, but hey..

I don't regard over the top music as 'cheesy' To me the term has always meant music that overplays the sentimental, so it by no means refers to just prog rock. Any musical genre can fall victim to cheese. Indeed, in the world of power ballads, the more cheese, the better..so it seems.



Another Day by the same band.   Your Own Special Way...even Mad Mad Moon to some extent.  I think Collins's rendition is the culprit in both cases.  
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Points: 6754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 11:54
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Return of the Giant Hogweed by Genesis comes to my mind.
It's such a fun song

But  not "cheesy"

Agreed.  "Your Own Special Way" by Genesis on W&W always comes to my mind as cloyingly sweet cheese.  

This definition of "cheesy" seems to nail it down for me:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheesy


"This is an important word and nobody has it right yet. What it means is: Trying too hard, unsubtle, and inauthentic. 

Specifically that which is unsubtle or inauthentic in its way of trying to elicit a certain response from a viewer, listener, audience, etc. Celine Dion is cheesy because her lyrics, timbre, key changes, and swelling orchestral accompaniment telegraph 'I want you to be moved' instead of moving you."





Edited by cstack3 - July 13 2012 at 11:56
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Points: 26133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:11
Originally posted by bb1319 bb1319 wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:


Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hmm... I think of anything cheesy as being commercialized. Frank Zappa expounds upon the term cheese inside one of his album jackets. I can't remember which album, You Are What You Is maybe. It's been a long time since I read it, but it still guides my interpretation of the word.
A little earlier in his discography, but do you remember Suzy Creamcheese?


Suzy Creamcheese, this is your conscience speaking.
What's got into her anyway?
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Points: 26133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:13
I used the word "cheesy" in college to describe guys who hit on girls all the time.  For music that I consider a bit embarrassing for its ingratiating manner with an absence of irony, I use the word "corny".

Edited by HolyMoly - July 13 2012 at 12:15
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Points: 5093 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:39
Funny how we all have such different perceptions.
To me cheesy has never had anything to do with music being overblown or pretentious.
That someone says that ELP, Wakeman or Genesis Return of The Giant Hogweed is cheesy is completely against my perception of the term.
 
I have always associated the term to pseudo-prog which has a lot of commercial and pop leanings, perfect examples being the poppiest songs in Neal Morse's Lifeline such as The Way Home, God's Love and Children Of The Chosen (and having nothing to do with the religious lyrics, I mean the musical style).
 
Or the poppiest songs of Moon Safari (such as The Gods of Flowers Past in Blomljud which even with a lenght of nearly 10 min it's clearly based on pop chord progressions and melodies but with prog arrangement).
 
Ayreon indeed have a few cheesy ones.
 
In other words songs which are basically pop songs and then arranged into a proggy fashion by adding a couple of time breaks here and there, a gilmouresque solo, the instrumentation etc.
 
Although the cheesiest prog band must surely be Bunchacheeze Wink


Edited by Gerinski - July 13 2012 at 12:42
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Points: 6754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 12:55
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

 

This here be cheesy.


TURN IT OFF!!  TURN IT OFF!!  Indeed, that is EXACTLY what I was getting at!!   Dripping with...melted cheese!

Some prog compositions have deliberate humor/excess worked into the composition, one of my favorites being "Hocus Pocus" by Focus!   They serve up some real prog-gouda....the goofy looks, whistles, and yodels of TVL are interspersed with some blazing fusion guitar lead by Jan Akermann, making for an amazingly fun & legit experience!!   

Ian Anderson and Tull also do the cheese frequently & deliberately (Did anyone else see the "War Child" tour, with the animal-themed costumes?  Jaw-dropping, but NOT cheese!!).  Excess can be a valuable tool in composition, but as Big Elf demonstrates, playing two distorted Mellotrons at once does not constitute fine dining!!  

Great thread by the way, thanks for contributing!!  What would be King Crimson's cheesiest moment?  "Moon Child" comes to mind....

Wakeman certainly seems to be the Cheese King on this thread!  "King Arthur" set to ice....ugh!  
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Points: 26133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:10
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


Great thread by the way, thanks for contributing!!  What would be King Crimson's cheesiest moment?  "Moon Child" comes to mind....
Probably Bill Bruford's choice of clothing in the "Three of a Perfect Pair" concert video. Or maybe just the overall production of that concert film.  Mind you, this is only relative, a faintly cheesy blip on the otherwise blemish-free radar screen.
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:30
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Dream Theater is pretty sticky.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that!  

Even worse....I attended the Dream Theater show in Chicago a few years back.  Opening for DT were "Zappa Plays Zappa," which is sublime and not to be missed....."Scale the Summit," an instrumental, guitar-prog band from Texas that channels Fripp's gamelan music....

.....and THIS mess, "Big Elf"!!   Music for raging headaches!  I submit this as proof positive of the existence of prog cheese:


 
 
I love Bif Elf haha
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:32
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Tongue

But yeah, on a more serious note, I guess it refers to prog that is overblown, somewhat plastic and by the numbers so to speak. I am not naming names here, because I won't pull this thread into the gutter. I will say this though, a lot of the modern production values that now seem tattooed onto the genre itself, to me at least, unwillingly maybe - stands for most of the cheese this style of music has to offer. The lacking warmth and "noise" of the production literally lures cheese into the music.
 
I disagree. I actually prefer this lack of warmth. The overproduction is good, if you are able to have other albums with raw production. It's about picking and choosing in my opinion.
 
I prefer more overproduced stuff so that when you go to see it live it has the warm raw feeling. I loooove noise in production. I want lots of noise. And when prog get's cheesy it can kick ass. Think of the last track from Banco's Io Soto album. Cheesy as hell. Amazing as hell and heaven.


Edited by Smurph - July 13 2012 at 13:33
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:55
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

  What would be King Crimson's cheesiest moment?  "Moon Child" comes to mind....


Moonchild isn't cheesy at all, it's dreamy and contemplative.
I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Manuel View Drop Down
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Points: 12394 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

There is a knive made for cutting Progressive Cheese :
Ergo Progressive Cheese exist
 
 

Very Funny. Where can I get me one?
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altaeria View Drop Down
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Points: 178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 13:59

For me-- music is like pizza.

The media and the general public may insist that Alt Rock and Punk is "cool"...
but they can't convince me that a breadstick and a jar of tomato sauce is a quality pizza.

Sick
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 14:02
Ha- Alt rock has way more cheese. As well as punk in my opinion.
 
Really, that kind of music is just cheese and no tomato sauce on top of a cardboard crust.
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf
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