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I think Echolyn should be changed to Eclectic Prog

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ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: I think Echolyn should be changed to Eclectic Prog
    Posted: January 12 2013 at 16:41
Originally posted by Kati

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by Kati

Echolyn are excellent, I would never classify them as eclectic tho' Disapprove unless my perception of eclectic is wrong.
 
Also every album is quite different from the other but that is not consideret eclectic either. Smile


actually Sonia when every album sounds different it is indeed eclectic Smile
 
Nope sweetheart, sounding different means they took a different direction not necessary eclectic. I think eclectic means a lot of key changes within one track not album, most times heavy use of hammond organ or mellotron/novatron, oddest key changes, some tracks I'd call them marmite tracks coz some might like it but a lot won't, also not very radio friendly, Big smile


look up the definition of Eclectic, Sonia and you'll see what I mean but  I see what you mean it's not restricted to just one song though


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 12 2013 at 16:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 16:42
examples of bands eclectic in the spirit :
Mr. Bungle
Dixie Dregs
Praxis
Mike Oldfield

Curisouly, none of these bands is tagged "eclectic" in PA (and Praxis are not yet here).

VDGG and King crimson are actually "dark" prog, not really eclectic. They are as eclectic as Rush.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Monadology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 21:31
Originally posted by lucas

Eclectic ?
I only hear progressive rock in their music.

Never heard them play funk, or soul, or classical music, or rap, or metal, or blues.
I do admit that we can hear jazz (lunch in the sun) and folk on '...and every blossom', but you can hear folk and jazz in virtually every prog rock band.

You don't hear any jazz or metal in The End is Beautiful? No blues in their latest self-titled?

I'm not arguing they should go in eclectic, I'm not sure what the best fit is, but these sorts of statements seem a bit reactionary. echolyn's more recent work is not typical symphonic, even if you think that's where they belong.





Edited by Monadology - January 12 2013 at 21:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 22:20
Originally posted by Gerinski

PA system tags the band, not their albums, and therefore in principle it tags the band according to their debut or very first albums. Later changes in style are not reflected in the band tagging, otherwise we could argue that Genesis should be in Crossover or so many other cases.

Only for obscure bands added only after a significant discography can their whole history be evaluated for their initial tagging.

From this perspective Symph is OK for me. 





Well if that's the case then why are Porcupine Tree tagged as heavy prog and not psych/space prog?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 22:39
Ok now I am confused, I am lucky and proud to have the new album from Echolyn, signed and sent by Tom Hyatt from Echolyn. I love the band but never came to my mind as being eclectic. Can anyone please describe to me what is perceived here as eclectic? Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 22:49
Well it's just my opinion. The latest one might be their most symphonic or tradtional prog sounding in while. I just don't hear a lot of symphonic elements in the majority of their music. They seem pretty diverse to me. Others don't see it that way so I'll just have to live with them being labelled symphonic on here. No big deal I guess.

Tom is a cool guy. I actually live in the same general area as Echolyn, know the guys personally fairly well, have seen them several times in concert, hung out with them and drank some beers with them backstage at Progday, helped them move some of their instruments on stage and interviewed them last summer.  echolyninterview.blogspot.com I might get in trouble for posting that here but there it is anyway. They are pretty friendly guys. Tom, Brett and Chris were interviewed by myself online(although I told some of them beforehand in person I was doing it)while the other two were not as internet savy but I'm sure they were grateful in their own way even though one of them did did steal one of my nachos. :P Still a great bunch of guys though and very talented musicians.


Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 12 2013 at 22:51
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 22:57
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller

Well it's just my opinion. The latest one might be their most symphonic or tradtional prog sounding in while. I just don't hear a lot of symphonic elements in the majority of their music. They seem pretty diverse to me. Others don't see it that way so I'll just have to live with them being labelled symphonic on here. No big deal I guess.

Tom is a cool guy. I actually live in the same general area as Echolyn, know the guys personally fairly well, have seen them several times in concert, hung out with them and drank some beers with them backstage at Progday, helped them move some of their instruments on stage and interviewed them last summer.  echolyninterview.blogspot.com I might get in trouble for posting that here but there it is anyway. They are pretty friendly guys. Tom, Brett and Chris were interviewed by myself online(although I told some of them beforehand in person I was doing it)while the other two were not as internet savy but I'm sure they were grateful in their own way even though one of them did did steal one of my nachos. :P Still a great bunch of guys though and very talented musicians.
 
hahahaha how dare they steal your nachos!!! umphf! UnhappyWink Tom is nice and hot!!! Approve Plus sweet and he loves animals awwwww (go on everyone say... awwwww)  Heart , I posted this on his fb wall too Big smile too funny... he is easy to provoke because he is such a nice guy and shy lolol haha!!! LOL Also he does have a sense of humor/humour Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Truth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 23:10
I'd say eclectic too. *cough*
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 23:24
Originally posted by The Truth

I'd say eclectic too. *cough*
 
lol that aint THE TRUTH Wink You must have been smokin' something strange, maybe your scarf and the others their socks. Because Echolyn is crossoverprog and since when is crossover, eclectic?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Federico95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 04:20
I think that both definitions are correct... But maybe they should be changed to Eclectic because even if they don't change fifty genres across a single song, every album is a world apart: the first three are Symphonic, the EP (now I don't remember the name) is Folk, Mei has strong classical influences, The End Is Beautiful has Funk, Jazz and Metal influences and the last one is something like Prog Rock meets Alternative/Post-Rock... The best thing to do would be to give a genre for each album but the whole website should be revolutioned for that, so maybe we should just leave the things how they are Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 06:51
If we start changing every old band from a genre to another because of the evolution in their sound, we'll have a lot of work to do. Especially if we realize that some bands have on their albums songs of different styles. The latest Echolyn's cd has a couple of symphonic songs. I am ok with symphonic, because it's the way i want to remember them... I am not too good with labels, genres, i leave that to the specialist...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 07:35
^ exactly.
 
We (as human beans) classify things so we can store them away for later reference to save us having to go look for them again, so when we find another thing that looks a bit like that thing we store it away alongside the first thing and now we can find both things again when we want them. In time the pile of things that look the same gets bigger and last thing added to the pile might not look much like the first thing but there is a chain of things-added that connects them all together. This collating method is quite useful which is why we do it, it's useful for helping people find a particular thing and its useful for helping people find things that are like other things - it's rediscovery not discovery. It all falls to pieces when we get too choosy about what goes where and start moving things around from pile to pile, now those relationships and connections are broken and whatever rational that formed any particular pile of things is lost - once you move one thing from one pile to another pile lots of other things in the first pile don't have any relationship to any other thing in that pile, so they have to be moved too, except they don't have much in common with all the things in the second pile. So we need to create a miscellaneous pile for all those things that are not directly connected with any of the first things in either pile and once you have a miscellaneous pile everything can fit in that pile and the purpose of classifying and sorting things is no longer valid - we cannot find anything because everything is an unclassified mess.
 
The "Art Rock" categories like Heavy, Eclectic and Crossover were never miscellaneous piles, they had a purpose and an intent - we all may disagree on what that initial intent was and the rational for adding bands into those categories will have evolved as those categories grew (and the personnel adding bands into them changed) but they are still classified categories whose definitions extend beyond the dictionary definition/etymology of just their names.
 
As already stated - all Progressive Rock is eclectic, but that is in the adjective use of the word, we must use caution when trying to use it as a noun.


Edited by Dean - January 13 2013 at 07:37


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 00:00
Well I was inadvertently chatting with a woman who he was apparently dating. I don't know if they are still seeing eachother though. I wasn't really trying to pick her up(especially after I found out that she was seeing him) but just being friendly and making small talk. But in all honesty I do have a thing for women(especially attractive ones) who like prog. So if that picture is you then ummmm let's just say that if you didn't live in Mozambique...Wink But don't worry I'll be a gentlman on here and I'm not on here to pick up progchicks. It would be nice to meet a woman and take her to some prog shows or festivals and not have her complain or fall asleep on me though. LOL


But back to the discussion that I started, like I said Echolyn did have a few albums early on(maybe the first two and one ep)that could be considered symphonic but really that's about it. As for crossover prog, I'd buy that before symphonic and I would even be happy with that label. When a band is mislabeled like Porcupine Tree also is(they also should be either eclectic or crossover or even psych space) I'm going to say something about it just like you guys all should if it strikes your fancy.


Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 14 2013 at 00:07
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Federico95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 08:14
I think that here a band should be labeled as "Eclectic Prog" if it varies through different kind of Prog during their career, and I think that Echolyn did this...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 12:08
Just hyphenate all bands as "Whatever Prog-Eclectic" ......also change the site name to
 
Prog Archives-Eclectic


Edited by Catcher10 - January 14 2013 at 12:24
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 15:17
We do have bands switch genres all the time when it comes to Tech/Extreme to Experimental/Post Metal.

Honestly, I would say they are symphonic enough. Very active symphonic. While they do play Gentle Giant inspired parts here and there, they don't change quite as frequently as GG.

If they were to change anywhere I would be happy putting them in Xover because they have enough catchy melodies and a sort of "pleasing" quality to their recordings that make it both hard edged and easy going.

But really I think we should just leave it where it is.

Epignosis and Ivan would probably be the ones to discuss this with.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 15:20
Originally posted by Kati

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by Kati

Echolyn are excellent, I would never classify them as eclectic tho' Disapprove unless my perception of eclectic is wrong.
 
Also every album is quite different from the other but that is not consideret eclectic either. Smile


actually Sonia when every album sounds different it is indeed eclectic Smile
 
Nope sweetheart, sounding different means they took a different direction not necessary eclectic. I think eclectic means a lot of key changes within one track not album, most times heavy use of hammond organ or mellotron/novatron, oddest key changes, some tracks I'd call them marmite tracks coz some might like it but a lot won't, also not very radio friendly, Big smile

I would say eclectic is a genre that is mostly undefinable without being quite so weird that it goes in Avant. Also, eclectic can also mean that they have moved through so many genres throughout their career that you can't define them either. This works with King Crimson. Echolyn, on the other hand have not had such a varied career. If they went out and released some very strange work that was opposite what they normally do as their next album, I would support eclectic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 19:44
Originally posted by Smurph

Originally posted by Kati

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by Kati

Echolyn are excellent, I would never classify them as eclectic tho' Disapprove unless my perception of eclectic is wrong.
 
Also every album is quite different from the other but that is not consideret eclectic either. Smile


actually Sonia when every album sounds different it is indeed eclectic Smile
 
Nope sweetheart, sounding different means they took a different direction not necessary eclectic. I think eclectic means a lot of key changes within one track not album, most times heavy use of hammond organ or mellotron/novatron, oddest key changes, some tracks I'd call them marmite tracks coz some might like it but a lot won't, also not very radio friendly, Big smile

I would say eclectic is a genre that is mostly undefinable without being quite so weird that it goes in Avant. Also, eclectic can also mean that they have moved through so many genres throughout their career that you can't define them either. This works with King Crimson. Echolyn, on the other hand have not had such a varied career. If they went out and released some very strange work that was opposite what they normally do as their next album, I would support eclectic.
 
Hello Smurph,
Hug your alias name reminds me of those cute tiny blue people with white hoods and white pants Big smile cute!
I am personally don't care what a band's classification is, however for Echolyn fans it should not matter because they know and follow the band no matter what genre. I believe it's a guiding tool for new prospects, thus every album should be classified accordingly in order to direct them there.   Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AEProgman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 20:19
Originally posted by Dean

^ exactly.
 
We (as human beans) classify things so we can store them away for later reference to save us having to go look for them again, so when we find another thing that looks a bit like that thing we store it away alongside the first thing and now we can find both things again when we want them. In time the pile of things that look the same gets bigger and last thing added to the pile might not look much like the first thing but there is a chain of things-added that connects them all together. This collating method is quite useful which is why we do it, it's useful for helping people find a particular thing and its useful for helping people find things that are like other things - it's rediscovery not discovery. It all falls to pieces when we get too choosy about what goes where and start moving things around from pile to pile, now those relationships and connections are broken and whatever rational that formed any particular pile of things is lost - once you move one thing from one pile to another pile lots of other things in the first pile don't have any relationship to any other thing in that pile, so they have to be moved too, except they don't have much in common with all the things in the second pile. So we need to create a miscellaneous pile for all those things that are not directly connected with any of the first things in either pile and once you have a miscellaneous pile everything can fit in that pile and the purpose of classifying and sorting things is no longer valid - we cannot find anything because everything is an unclassified mess.
 
The "Art Rock" categories like Heavy, Eclectic and Crossover were never miscellaneous piles, they had a purpose and an intent - we all may disagree on what that initial intent was and the rational for adding bands into those categories will have evolved as those categories grew (and the personnel adding bands into them changed) but they are still classified categories whose definitions extend beyond the dictionary definition/etymology of just their names.
 
As already stated - all Progressive Rock is eclectic, but that is in the adjective use of the word, we must use caution when trying to use it as a noun.
Eventually the moving of these "Piles" around will become like this definition:
Definition: Piles (properly called hemorrhoids) are painful and/or itchy swollen veins in the rectum.
 
Sorry...Embarrassed, but  I agree and should leave Echolyn as is even though there may be some debateable reasons for re-classification. 
 
On a side note, you Site Admin guys do an amazing job on this site and have a thankless job...Thanks! Clap


Edited by AEProgman - January 14 2013 at 20:35

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 00:12
Originally posted by Federico95

I think that here a band should be labeled as "Eclectic Prog" if it varies through different kind of Prog during their career, and I think that Echolyn did this...



Exactly. That's one of my main reasons for thinking they should be in Eclectic. Glad to see others agree with me on this. Wink
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