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Surrealism (TV, Literature and Music)

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Poll Question: what is your favoured of the three
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [27.78%]
4 [22.22%]
1 [5.56%]
3 [16.67%]
5 [27.78%]
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Surrealism (TV, Literature and Music)
    Posted: August 18 2013 at 11:52
Hi,
 
I'm not sure that Monty Python was influenced by the Surrealists, but one Ionesco play had weird stuff in it, and many of the MP skits were very similar to that playwright's work, but what made it better, was the television and the fact that you could see this in color now. Few folks knew Ionesco and the Surrealistic move in the film and theater era. And since Americans don't read literature, they never heard of it!
 
For the most part, Monty Python, was a visual THE GOONS. No one, before, or since, has ever created such amazing imagery, that rivals Luis Bunuel's and his content, as Spike Milligan did on the GOON SHOW with sound effects, and brilliant writing!
 
All in all, music did not take to Surrealism very well at all, with maybe an example or two here and there, mostly because the majority of music is based on a concept, and design that is set in stone and brick, and you are not a musician if you don't use it ... and the idea in Surrealism, was exactly to break those bonds inside out ... which music did not do, and still doesn't.
 
I have written about this subject and connected it to the free form improvisations in Krautrock, that were similar, and wanting to break out of the confines of western musical concepts ... but we're a bunch of socialistic defined and designed people, and can not handle that kind of work a whole lot ...specially today ... some Bunuel, would not only get banned, the American Media would make sure no one enters the theater!
 


Edited by moshkito - August 18 2013 at 12:01
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2013 at 22:25
Surrealism in music is best defined by one Prog Archive poster trying to convince another that Van Der Graaf Generator's lack of album sales made the band more relevant progressively than a popular band like Pink Floyd. Exchange Van Der Graaf Generator for King Crimson if you wish, the clocks are still melting upon a lunar landscape.
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2013 at 23:16
... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote VOTOMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 09:15
the perfect combo -         the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy +


Originally posted by ole-the-first




I Like SciFi,mecha & stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 10:01
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?
 
 
Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)
 
Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?
 
Confused
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 10:07
If anyone likes surreal sci-fi I recommend Stanislaw Lem and PKDick.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 11:46
Originally posted by dr wu23

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?



 

 

Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)

 

Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?

 

Confused
have you ever read their lyrics
Yonder Yonder Yonder Yonder Yonder Yonder
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 11:57
I just wanted to say that fans of Dali should go check out his Soft Self Portrait video.  Last time I checked it's on youtube.  Funny as hell.  Very late '60's in style (not surprising as that's when it was made.)
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2013 at 22:19
Originally posted by aginor

Originally posted by dr wu23

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

... Genesis - 0, all of them - 1. So, out of the 12 people that voted only one of them likes Genesis?



 

 

Is that Genesis as in the first book of the Bible...certainly a lot of surrealism in that .  ;)

 

Seriously how exactly is Genesis , the band, surrealistic..?

 

Confused
have you ever read their lyrics
 
 
Was that supposed to be a joke..? If so it was severely lame.
Of course I  have read their lyrics. If that's your idea of surrealism then all I can say is you haven't really encountered surrealism.
Wink
 


Edited by dr wu23 - August 19 2013 at 22:27
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2013 at 10:32

(Dup_)



Edited by moshkito - August 25 2013 at 10:40
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2013 at 10:36
Originally posted by aginor

 ... have you ever read their lyrics
 
There are lyrics that border on surrealism, but they aren't. They are more symbolic of a meaning for the album or the work at hand.
 
The lawnmower, is not exactly a good example of surrealism, and Peter never claimed it either. 
 
The whole of Genesis fits more into another realm of literature with its stories and ideas, and designs.
 
Perhaps we should have you read out loud in your bathroom naked (don't want to offend the family) the Surrealist Manifesto by Bresson!  It would not be as good as a woman doing this naked in a Godard film to a different book ... but what the heck.
 
You might find that not many rock bands come close! And that one lyric/line in the middle of a song, does not a theory make!
 
Originally posted by VOTOMS

the perfect combo - the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy + Eraserhead
David Lynch is a sanitized carbon copy of the worst Luis Bunuel! The main difference is that David Lynch had a budget and Luis Bunuel didn't!


Edited by moshkito - August 25 2013 at 10:39
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2013 at 11:02
Originally posted by moshkito

David Lynch is a sanitized carbon copy of the worst Luis Bunuel! The main difference is that David Lynch had a budget and Luis Bunuel didn't!

Bunuel's my favorite director. Lynch can't compare. Bunuel was a true European Spanish Surrealist, meaning Freudian, marxist, anticlerical, focused on history, class, the Church. Lynch doesn't bring this level of intellectualism to his art. However, I'm thankful there's a David Lynch. It's very rare to have an American director during this generation following his own whims over a long career. I wish he were more prolific; he's slowed down a lot in the last decade or so... If one make the mistake of expecting Bunuel when watching Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire, Twin Peaks or Blue Velvet, one will definitely be disappointed. These are not Bunuel-esque films. They are Lynchian films.
 



Edited by jude111 - August 25 2013 at 11:04
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2013 at 15:55
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2013 at 10:05
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2013 at 10:09
Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2013 at 16:35
Originally posted by The Pessimist

Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature
^this
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2013 at 17:46
Originally posted by The Pessimist

Also, if you are talking about Genesis meaning the first book of the bible, then that gets my vote. It's one of my favourite pieces of surrealist literature
 
Gonna tell yoh momma that you are a naughty boy!
 
Embarrassed
 
I'm not sure you are that far off, btw ... and it's not the first time it's been said in this past century ... good thing, too, since 200 years ago, they would have called us witches, or some other stupidity and put us on the barbie!
 
I always thought that there is no better example of all this with the beginning of Fellini's Intervista ... with the little boy doing his thing into the river! I laughed so hard ... and in the end, it was the main reason why the church condemned the film! But it was pure surrealism and at its best and most innocent! Except that it was Fellini,of course!


Edited by moshkito - August 31 2013 at 17:48
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2013 at 12:45
Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Surrealism in music is best defined by one Prog Archive poster trying to convince another that Van Der Graaf Generator's lack of album sales made the band more relevant progressively than a popular band like Pink Floyd. Exchange Van Der Graaf Generator for King Crimson if you wish, the clocks are still melting upon a lunar landscape.
 
The closest that Surrealism has come that is similar in "style" when you step back, and look at the two films that Bunuel and Dali put together almost 80 years ago, would be something like FAUST in the early albums, where the sound effects kinda ran together and you might, or might not make a story based on that.
 
Ron Geesin, has a lot of surrealistic moments in his own albums, but the fact that Roger has gone out of the way to trash him, has left him in a corner, and sadly so. Some of the stuff is there is fairly close to surrealism, but again, I actually think that his point of view and thoughts, helped Roger, later, make sense of sound effects better than anyone else in music, however, that would be totally considered against a surrealistic thought or idea!
 
In many ways, Syd Barrett, would have been way more surrealistic, were it not for his penchant for satirical commentary about anything he did, which was very "British", and probably his own way of making fun of the Sgt Pepper's obsessive idea that it was psychedelic, when half of it was silly, and not stoned or psychedelic at all! And it's "meanings" broke the stoned/psychedelic ideals which would be more in line with "surrealism" than not. In many ways, even the moments in "Interstellar Overdrive" and "Astronomy Domine" or "A Saucerful of Secrets" could be considered "surrealistic, if you take those "improvised/experimental" sections and accepted that there were no "meanings" to be extracted from them! But in IO, it becomes a sort of outer space signal like morse, or beep beep, and that is the start of AD and also the other single "Point Me to the Sky", and then in ASoS it becomes just instruments on a run to nowhere, finally coming together to make something out of nothing, so to speak! The "meaning" side of things, takes away the surrealistic concepts.
 
This makes PF not be surrealistic at all!
 
However, later, you will find some massive surrealism in Gerald Scarfe's cartoons in "The Wall", many of which add a lot more to the story and its concept, than it's really there, and actually help create a story, from a bunch of songs! I don't think that Roger, or any of us, would want to admit that, or accept that. It would be much harder to put the whole thing together without the sound effects and the cartoons that are now framed in your mind every time you hear this monster!
 
I still have a concern that someone thinks that something is surrealistic simply because they said melted clocks in their lyrics, when the very idea of melting the clock, for DALI, was much more about the heat where he lived, than it was about surrealism itself! I always thought that was hilarrious!
 
Hipgnosis' album covers, not all of them, but many of them, are excellent examples of surrealistic art works.  But Storm and friends, almost always made a comment, or editorial about the music within with them ... and most of them fit really well, in my book!
 


Edited by moshkito - October 30 2013 at 13:03
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2013 at 13:21
Id say, go ahead, compare and analyse.

Look into the idears of Surealism, what was the inspiration, how did it evolve, what was the goals.
Compare with Monty P. and Genesis, Hitchhikers Guide, what was the inspiration, how did it evolve, what was the goals.
Find similarities and contradictions.
Why not, could be interesting.





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Post Options Post Options   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2013 at 21:37
All of them. I like Surrealism.
Can you light a fire in Winter's face. Or say why a life has gone to waste. Pleasure Island was an overcrowded place.
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