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Neo-Romantic 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2013
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Points: 928
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 Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:34 |
 timbo wrote:
Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. |
Nick Mason was always a mixed bag for me. The first live recording I ever saw of him was a clip of him playing "One of These Days" live at Pompeii where the camera was trained on him specifically. Problem was he was dragging, causing the whole band to slow down as the song went on and he clumsily dropped a stick during a fill where he was more convulsing than tastefully adding anything. As a drummer, I get it, you drop sticks, it happens. I've done it plenty of times, even live. I'm not writing him off entirely, as shows later in the band's career showed a more focused Mason adding more creative parts not present on the album. It was just a jarring example that left an impression on me. But the band itself didn't suffer as a whole. Just that one aspect of the ensemble.
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timbo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2013
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Points: 106
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Posted: April 22 2013 at 04:04 |
moshkito wrote:
timbo wrote:
... My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad". ... |
Make sure you tell her, that if she thinks it's old music and she can't learn from it, that she will never be good enough to get anywhere with any band! There is no such thing as "old music" ... there is only people that do not know there is music, that's all! |
Ha! Yes I agree! Irony is that she currently plays in a metal band performing covers of bands like Metallica and Kiss that were originally made 10 or 20 years before she was born. I did manage to get her to listen to some Zep once, but only because she was stuck in a car with me and couldn't go anywhere.
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
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Points: 3252
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Posted: April 13 2013 at 16:34 |
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The drummer of Blue Oyster Cult in fire of unknow origin,.
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Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16163
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Posted: April 13 2013 at 16:24 |
timbo wrote:
... My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad". ... |
Make sure you tell her, that if she thinks it's old music and she can't learn from it, that she will never be good enough to get anywhere with any band! There is no such thing as "old music" ... there is only people that do not know there is music, that's all!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Biff Tannen
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Joined: February 13 2010
Location: St. Louis, USA
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Points: 159
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Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:59 |
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Gavin Harrison is awesome and, sure, was an upgrade, but Chris Maitland was a mighty fine drummer as well...certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination.
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"What are you looking at, butthead?"
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26171
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Posted: April 08 2013 at 15:28 |
moshkito wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself. |
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this? Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
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Just found another one ... and a much better example ... review upcoming soon. Go listen to Steve Gadd in Kate Bush's "50 Words for Snow" ... and I specially love the fact that there is no "format" for her and the music ... and she just keeps going, and I don't see, for even one second, where Steve Gadd is lacking a touch or feel ... that makes her work come off even better and so well defined. It is, by VERY VERY FAR, the most progressive drumming that I have heard since Pierre Moerlin ... that simple ... and case closed! But I seriously doubt that the majority of folks here can sit through her work, as it is so far and away more progressive in the pure sense of the word, that most of us can not even fathom it, or consider it! |
Kate Bush has quite a few fans around here 
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 16163
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:39 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself. |
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this? Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
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Just found another one ... and a much better example ... review upcoming soon. Go listen to Steve Gadd in Kate Bush's "50 Words for Snow" ... and I specially love the fact that there is no "format" for her and the music ... and she just keeps going, and I don't see, for even one second, where Steve Gadd is lacking a touch or feel ... that makes her work come off even better and so well defined. It is, by VERY VERY FAR, the most progressive drumming that I have heard since Pierre Moerlin ... that simple ... and case closed! But I seriously doubt that the majority of folks here can sit through her work, as it is so far and away more progressive in the pure sense of the word, that most of us can not even fathom it, or consider it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26171
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 01:40 |
john-westover wrote:
drummers are dime a dozen tfk had numerous drummers imho zoltan was best of batch |
their current drummer is better suited to their music imo. Zoltan is very talented but stays too much on the jazzy side for my taste.
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Dellinger
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Location: Mexico
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 21:33 |
timbo wrote:
Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad". |
I hate when people dismiss music because it's old music. But it's their loss.
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john-westover
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Joined: April 04 2013
Location: USA
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Points: 11
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 16:44 |
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drummers are dime a dozen tfk had numerous drummers imho zoltan was best of batch
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26171
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 13:52 |
timbo wrote:
Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad". |
Nick Mason has admitted that he didn't try that hard after Dark Side Of The Moon so that has left him open to criticism. I have to say I'm more with you on this. Mason's drumming is absolutely fine for the band he was in and more so I think there is more going on than people will credit him for. The drumming on Shine On You Crazy Diamond may sound simple but the feel is totally unique and I would like to see anyone else try and recreate that.
The first time I sat up and took real interest in drumming was probably Seven Seas Of Rye. Roger Taylor is perhaps another maligned drummer but I still love what he does there.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31165
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 10:27 |
Junges wrote:
Opeth. Not saying Axe is a bad drummer, but Martin Lopez is much better. Question of taste. |
Apart from this not meeting the topic requirement, I agree.
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timbo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2013
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Points: 106
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 10:07 |
Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here. As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
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Junges
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 19 2006
Location: Brazil
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Points: 620
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 21:26 |
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Opeth. Not saying Axe is a bad drummer, but Martin Lopez is much better. Question of taste.
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Dellinger
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12608
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 20:39 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself. |
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this? Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out. |
OK, I hope we're talking about the same thing, but I guess it was mainly done on the Pictures at an Exhibition album. Specially on the "Promenade" part that goes before "The Hut of Baba Yaga" (and perhaps not so obvious, but on the Baba Yaga song itself). Somehow on "The Gnome", "The Old Castle / Blues Variations", and "Nutrocker", but on those ones perhaps it was just that his drumming responded very nicely to the melody, more than it taking part of it, but still I like it very much (in a similar way I would think about "The Barbarian" and "Toccata").
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sukmytoe
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Joined: March 18 2013
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 291
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 16:49 |
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When I first look at a band I tend to look at the drummer's kit on stage - a kit consisting of nothing but a few drums I kind of avoid the band - a kit that looks like the guy is surrounded by a spaceship and I know I'm going to invariably enjoy the music. I kind of first judge a band looking at the drummer. For me the drummer who's who if I have to think really quickly about it is - Collins, Paice, Bonham, Portnoy and Peart (those guys for me are the best although I've answered that off the cuff, quickly). Ringo and Keith Moon weren't bad for me relating to the music they drummed to. I've always perceived personally that Metallica suffered due to its drummer but then that's just me - I've never really cottoned to the Metallica thing and I doubt that I ever will.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16163
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 15:25 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself. |
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this? Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
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I was actually thinking that ITCOTKC is a great example. For my ears, so is Ringo in Abbey Road for the most part (minus one song or so). BTW, thx so much for using the term "melody" in this discussion, because to me it is just another instrument ... playing another melody to create a whole ... and for my ears that IS what music is about ... when you look at a score with 35 or more lines of music for different instruments ... and then you see rock music ... and 3 of the instruments are doing the same thing ... except the guitarist in the ozone ... it takes a lot of the beauty in the music for me ... the "expression", and this is the reason why AD2 is so important for me in the early days ...
Edited by moshkito - April 01 2013 at 15:37
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16163
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 15:22 |
rogerthat wrote:
... I have never heard batucada but great tabla players can also create a sense of melody on their instrument and that is how I related to it when I heard Mason do the same. |
The term, is sort of ... "slang" ... as a way to say ... it's just fun drumming ... just like a drum circle when you went to get stoned (Snow Dog never did that!) with the Grateful Dead folks ... it was NOT designed to be music ... it was designed to be fun and such. For me, I took the liberty of spreading that a bit more ... into the rock music area, specially the "pop music" side of things, where it is always the same and the talent is defined in who can break the 759th beat by skipping it ... and nothing else but some mechanical something or other ... that is NOT what all music is about. In fact ... try checking out the mechanical side of Stravinsky ... or Beethoven ... and you will have a hard time. It might have been "mechanical" in the Bach era, but I honestly believe that is more a historical mis-conception than a reality ... so you gonna suggest that no one in history ever sang or played not only out of tune, but created something that was odd and sounded even stranger? ... see my point? ... all of a sudden the "mechanics" is what you give KIDS to learn music ... musicianship, is way beyond the mere, and simple mechanics, and too many folks are taking advantage of the process and think themselves better musicians simply because it sold 10 more pieces than you or I! Or 10 people said something about it in PA, instead of just Mosh, or no one else! See the problem all of a sudden? ... your music definition just became ... "might makes right".
Edited by moshkito - April 01 2013 at 15:23
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 01 2013 at 09:17 |
Dellinger wrote:
I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself. |
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this? Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 31 2013 at 21:18 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Billy 7 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
chopper wrote:
Collins is an excellent drummer - his work on Genesis Live is as good as anything else in prog. |
And how about those nifty Brand X recordings! |
I expect Collins to have some fans on a prog site but go over to rock forums and not so ! Very overated in prog circles ! |
Utter bollocks! |
I would much sooner trust a prog fan about his opinions on good drumming than a rock fan.
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