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sorcerer kermes 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
 Posted: March 17 2013 at 21:05 |
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hey roger i have never said those things and i cant understand how you get to those conclusion i have never said Raven is not prog at all and either never claimed anything on prog rock fanatics , i just asked a question about Wilsons music , plz dont rely on your famtasies about other people and think before just judging a person
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 20:56 |
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I think your rudeness is enough to offend, irrespective of any 'interests' you might attempt to infer. And your claim that one has to be rude to counter fanatics doesn't wash. Two wrongs to make a right, much?
In short, you think prog archives attempts to project Wilson as a prog artist when he is not because this site is ridden with Wilson fanatics? So how about other sources? Here, popmatters thinks Raven That Refused to Sing is prog. So does Ultimate Guitar: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/compact_discs/steven_wilson/the_raven_that_refused_to_sing_and_other_stories/index.html Sputnik music: http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-raven-that-refused-to-sing-and-other-stories-mw0002475916
I don't think any further sources need to be cited. The point is, this is a widely held opinion, not Collaborator-prog as you mischievously insinuate here. Actually, except viewed through your prism (which is evidently biased by his previous fondness for metal and alt rock), it should be pretty obvious that this album and the previous Wilson solo effort Grace for Drowning are prog rock. They may or may not be very progressive in terms of innovation, but the music is certainly prog rock. If you still wish to hold a different opinion, you may well do so as it is your right but you are not entitled to cry that heresy has been committed merely because the rest of the world doesn't share your opinion. Prove it, prove that it is heresy to call Raven That Refused to Sing prog, don't just idly opine. Everybody has opinions, can you substantiate yours instead of merely ranting? Edited by rogerthat - March 17 2013 at 20:58 |
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sorcerer kermes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 20:55 |
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i have no interest in replying your hateful posts and i have mentioned it before so from now on dont bother wasting your time on me, i dont know anything about prog and you are the god, just one simple advice: i dont know why you are an admin here! but remember it doesnt mean you can talk to people from an upper level and plz dont feel that you are a sheriff , good luck
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 20:44 |
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I am not upset about anything, however I am disappointed by some of your comments, I have now spoken to you on two occasions for being rude and offensive.
You are free to feel that Wilson is not making Progressive Music (though your arguments so far and your review of Raven have failed to demonstrate that). You are also free to criticise people here, but be prepared for people to defend themselves when you make unfounded accusations and snide insinuations about how we add artists.
So, cut the back-chat and play nice, or you can leave.
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sorcerer kermes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 20:10 |
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now i get why you are so upset with this topic i started i never knew it wws you who added Wilson. im not accusing anyone for anything but i have the right to critisize anything i want and never let anyone to take this right from me so if you cant tolerate any opposite opinions it's not my problem, i do what i think is right whether you like it or not
Edited by sorcerer kermes - March 17 2013 at 20:13 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 19:17 |
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As an Admin of this site I take every criticism of the site and of the collaborators who give their free time to maintain the database very seriously. If you offend them you offend me.
For your information I added Steven Wilson to this site in my former capacity of Crossover Team leader after he was voted for inclusion by the rest of the team, so I will take personally any question of Wilson's Prog credentials when coupled with your previous insinuation that Special Collaborators make room for their favourite artists.
I couldn't careless who you think you are talking to, this is a discussion forum not a chat-line.
And at this moment in time I am specifically talking to you as an Admin of this site. If you have criticisms about how things are done around here then be sure you understand exactly how they are done first.
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sorcerer kermes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 19:10 |
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in fact im not even talking to you!!
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sorcerer kermes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 19:06 |
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why you take everything personally Dean?? no one offended you be relax, no one is accusing you!!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 18:52 |
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Now you're just being offensive. Rather than throw wild accusations around, why don't you find out how the collaboration and artist inclusion/addition system works.
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sorcerer kermes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2008 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 102 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 18:49 |
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Prog by the Press !  totally agreed with you.how about "Prog by a Specific Special Collaborator" ?!  |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 18:32 |
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I'm not crazy about the name either - I would have preferred to have kept the original "Art Rock" name, but prefixing that with the "Prog" epithet (as in "Progressive Art Rock") just so we could continue to be inclusively selective. If the term alone makes you not want to hear it then you are not the man I thought you were. I don't believe in labels but accept the necessity of needing them as some form shorthand labelling between like-minded fans so we all know what the hell we are all talking about.
I do get the point you are making, I just find it to be meaningless - it's like inventing a language that only yourself speaks - intellectually amusing to no one but yourself and wholly useless for the one and only purpose that language has - to communicate with others. Edited by Dean - March 17 2013 at 18:48 |
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ProgressiveMike
Forum Groupie 
Joined: December 21 2012 Location: ColoradoSprings Status: Offline Points: 44 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 17:01 |
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Even if you don't consider Steven Wilson's solo album's to be "progressive rock" they are fantastic. Oh! and he made the cover of Prog Magazine. The first time I heard Porcupine Tree, I walked into the store and my (non prog fan of a) manager was listening to it. I listened for a short while to the begining of Jupiter Island and exclaimed "Keith! This is space rock!!" He failed even then to be impressed with any of my prog rock but I fell in love with a new band. Anyway, instinctively I consider everything I've heard from Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree to be prog. Perhaps it wouldn't stand up in a twelve person pannel to decide what genre to categorize the music as, but for me (a huge prog fan) it is most definitely prog. PS go buy the new Steven Wilson album. It is amazing.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20491 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 16:16 |
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Some good observations there......what exactly is prog and what isn't and I'm sure that has been argued here from the beginning of the forum. PT and Wilson solo cd's would have to go in my book as prog rock but there are plenty of songs on those cd;s that aren't all that progressive....and the same can be said about many of the prog bands that are on the lists here.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16290 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:36 |
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Prog Crossover, doesn't sound that bad ... but the term alone makes me not want to hear it ... in fact, I would think that "Prog-Related" would be a much better term than the Crossover" for most of those titles. But we're missing the following: "Prog Dean" ... "Prog Snowed" ... "Prog Mosh" ... "Prog Nothing" ... "Prog By the Book" ... "Prog by Imagination" ...  and a few others! ... can't forget ... "Prog by the Press" ... so we can have even more fun talking about it! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: March 16 2013 at 12:42 |
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Canterbury, Zeuhl, Psych/Space and Krautrock don't even have prog in their names, so they should be eliminated from the site immediately.  EDIT: And JR/F and Post Rock Edited by The Doctor - March 16 2013 at 12:45 |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: March 16 2013 at 12:37 |
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Grind that axe........love it when a newbie arrives at PA to shred the format.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 16 2013 at 12:24 |
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So... the only subgenres that get it right by your formula would be Prog Folk, Prog Electronic, Prog Metal and Prog Related.
Oooooooo..kaaayyyeee....
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16290 |
Posted: March 16 2013 at 11:35 |
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The one that decides the word "Prog" comes before, or after, the name! Usually, by important, the main -- in this case "Prog" ... would always be in the front! So "Crossover Prog" would not be a good one, and in fact ... is one of the worst ... since EVERYONE cross over more than once!   Edited by moshkito - March 16 2013 at 11:35 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 15 2013 at 23:06 |
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Even early in their career or in the 80s generally, Maiden had tracks like Transylvania or Seventh Son of a Seventh Son which are a lot closer to prog than some people care to admit. As for Metallica, pretty much the whole of AJFA as well as Orion are prog without a doubt. Even a track like Ride the Lightning is proggy. The only difference is the chromaticism of old Metallica disguises the number of twists in that track. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 15 2013 at 21:22 |
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Lately, Wilson does seem to have a love affair with all things 70s, including the way they played their music, loose and improvised instead of the contemporary obsession with precision. With that told, as jude111 said, there are lots of prog artists who face this problem now. And if you contrast what infandous said with the OP, you can see the problem for musicians today. One side thinks he is not progressive enough while the other thinks he is not a true prog artist because he uses alternative rock elements. I am afraid our spread is not going to get particularly appetizing anytime soon if we continue to be slaves of taste. Taste is ok up to a point, but if the audience has no patience with adventure, the artists will gradually get boring too as they try to pander to the tastes of their fanbase for survival. And thereafter, you can call it prog or whatever else you like, but it is just entertainment (maybe entertainment for those who find commercial entertainment music offensive to their tastes, if you will) and has little significance in the larger scheme of things. What is the most Grace for Drowning is going to be remembered for? For reviving appreciation for 70s prog....probably not even that.
Edited by rogerthat - March 16 2013 at 00:17 |
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Is Steven Wilson making Prog music?
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sorcerer kermes wrote:
