Prog clichés

Originally posted by cstack3 Originally posted by Ajay Playing bass like Chris Squire. It's kind of hard not to, when you are slinging one of these babies around!   Rotosound strings, Herco plectrum etc.     This one is a 1973... ...yeah, I guess playing a Rick bass with a plectrum IS a prog cliche!  Squire, Rutherford, Bennett, Camp, Strater etc.!   Greg Lake couldn't stand Ricks, and they aren't for everyone's tastes!  But man, do they play great!

I generally don't blay bass, but I like playing on Ricks.  It is easy to play them like low-end guitars.  Spectres are also very cool for my guitar playing hands.

^ 

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes The Free Online Dictionary defines cliche as "A trite or overused expression or idea", further explaining that the word denotes "an expression or idea that has lost its originality or force through overuse".  I think some of the responders are mistaking "common themes/tropes" for "cliches."  Profound lyrics about universal love/philosophy will always be poignant (as long as they're done well!), concept albums don't lose their resonancy because many of them are made, complex musical ideas have been used for hundreds of years and didn't become cliche in jazz or classical music.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 22 2013 at 02:59

You know, most of what has been posted so far sounds more like pet peeves of the individual poster.  Things they don't like and are tired of hearing.  Is it still a cliche if most people love it?  Like the example of guitar solos.  They are the biggest actual cliche mentioned, yet most rock fans would be very disappointed if they were suddenly no longer used.  Personally, I'm not crazy about songs that DON'T have a guitar solo of some sort in them.

However, I think it's safe to say that the many variations of "apocalypse in 9/8" found in prog from the 80's until now, is definitely a cliche.  I still love the sound though, and usually don't mind bands doing their take on it.  

Originally posted by Quirky Turkey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwyj3D13QhA This includes a few.

Edited by jude111 - March 22 2013 at 23:23

Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha Embracing new wave and world music upon running out of ideas from prog (no offense Peter Gabriel, King Crimson and Rush).

Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - March 23 2013 at 02:04

Originally posted by infandous You know, most of what has been posted so far sounds more like pet peeves of the individual poster.  Things they don't like and are tired of hearing.  Is it still a cliche if most people love it?  Like the example of guitar solos.  They are the biggest actual cliche mentioned, yet most rock fans would be very disappointed if they were suddenly no longer used.  Personally, I'm not crazy about songs that DON'T have a guitar solo of some sort in them. However, I think it's safe to say that the many variations of "apocalypse in 9/8" found in prog from the 80's until now, is definitely a cliche.  I still love the sound though, and usually don't mind bands doing their take on it.

I don't know, there are two sides to this debate.  I love a good guitar solo but I don't like the pulling teeth variety anymore.  If you've heard one generic 80s metal guitar solo, you've heard nearly all.  Using a device because the audience liked it at one point of time and without conviction or an individualistic insight is cliched and gets pretty boring.  It's the same as using time sig changes because it's supposedly got to have them to be prog.   Genesis's time sig changes were beautiful, intuitive and challenged the boundaries of what was acceptable in rock and pop music.   On the other hand, you take a song like People Passing By (and I actually like PoS), it's so stop start it gets distracting.

Originally posted by brainstormer I'm the kind of person that never thinks that the problem is with "the younger generation." I think there is a natural ornery aging process.  But the question is, where is the best new music being produced?   In that sense, I hear a lot of cliche's in some of the newer prog that isn't going in a direction like Yes and Genesis did in their own way, or pleasant classical like ELP and others, and seems to be cliche in the way that other modern rock is going, that is, its kind of dark, negative, depressing, kind of like watching a horror movie only it's music.   You see this in a lot of prog metal.  To some people, you have to do that to be creative, but that's really sophmoric. It's like these people are being fed by TV culture. They should spend more time a a library.

Singing the modern equivalent of doobie doobie doobie and expecting to make a philosophicial statement with impact.

Originally posted by cstack3 ummmm....rock musicians wearing capes, perhaps?   I can't think of many rock idioms that employed the onstage cape as much as prog!  This is a nice one....Steve Howe, "Solos Tour," 14 August, 1976, Hawthorne Park, Illinois....

I am not sure about Glass Hammer but both TFK and Neal Morse/Spocks Beard were also influenced by Kansas and that is where the religious bent probably comes from.  Kansas is often left out in the discussion on 'happy'/'optimistic' prog.