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Prog clichés |
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Progosopher ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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Back to the topic though, we need to distinguish cliches from characteristics. Characteristics are defining, cliches are overused or elements used for their own sake.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Tom Ozric ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 12644 |
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Cliches are good, that's why they are cliches.................
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Dayvenkirq ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10966 |
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^
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 22 2013 at 02:59 |
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"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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rdtprog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Metal / Heavy / RPI / Symph Prog Team Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3105 |
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the way Marillion latest incarnation structure their songs by starting slowly with some piano lines and building to a crescendo the melody where every instruments kicks in with Steve Hogarth screaming his heart out. Well, maybe it shows the end of the prog style and the beginning of post-rock.
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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infandous ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2360 |
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You know, most of what has been posted so far sounds more like pet peeves of the individual poster. Things they don't like and are tired of hearing. Is it still a cliche if most people love it? Like the example of guitar solos. They are the biggest actual cliche mentioned, yet most rock fans would be very disappointed if they were suddenly no longer used. Personally, I'm not crazy about songs that DON'T have a guitar solo of some sort in them.
However, I think it's safe to say that the many variations of "apocalypse in 9/8" found in prog from the 80's until now, is definitely a cliche. I still love the sound though, and usually don't mind bands doing their take on it. |
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KingCrInuYasha ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Embracing new wave and world music upon running out of ideas from prog (no offense Peter Gabriel, King Crimson and Rush).
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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jude111 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: October 20 2009 Location: Not Here Status: Offline Points: 1565 |
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Hahaha, Richard Ayoade and Matt Berry - I *love* those guys! I wish they'd make more IT Crowd episodes... or Garth Marenghi's Darkplace for that matter... (On the other hand, there's probably already more than enough Mighty Boosh for the world to handle...
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Chicago, IL USA Status: Offline Points: 3216 |
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ummmm....rock musicians wearing capes, perhaps?
I can't think of many rock idioms that employed the onstage cape as much as prog! This is a nice one....Steve Howe, "Solos Tour," 14 August, 1976, Hawthorne Park, Illinois....
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DisgruntledPorcupine ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2010 Location: Thunder Bay CAN Status: Offline Points: 4395 |
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I don't see how trying something new equates to running out of ideas. Shouldn't bands be free to take whatever direction they choose?
Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - March 23 2013 at 02:04 |
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brainstormer ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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I'm the kind of person that never thinks that the problem is with "the younger generation."
I think there is a natural ornery aging process. But the question is, where is the best new music being produced? In that sense, I hear a lot of cliche's in some of the newer prog that isn't going in a direction like Yes and Genesis did in their own way, or pleasant classical like ELP and others, and seems to be cliche in the way that other modern rock is going, that is, its kind of dark, negative, depressing, kind of like watching a horror movie only it's music. You see this in a lot of prog metal. To some people, you have to do that to be creative, but that's really sophmoric. It's like these people are being fed by TV culture. They should spend more time a a library. |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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rogerthat ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 7488 |
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I don't know, there are two sides to this debate. I love a good guitar solo but I don't like the pulling teeth variety anymore. If you've heard one generic 80s metal guitar solo, you've heard nearly all. Using a device because the audience liked it at one point of time and without conviction or an individualistic insight is cliched and gets pretty boring. It's the same as using time sig changes because it's supposedly got to have them to be prog. Genesis's time sig changes were beautiful, intuitive and challenged the boundaries of what was acceptable in rock and pop music. On the other hand, you take a song like People Passing By (and I actually like PoS), it's so stop start it gets distracting. |
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KingCrInuYasha ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 26 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1275 |
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Yeah, that was kind of a stupid post. Sorry about that. |
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 12826 |
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interesting point dark music is more important than cheerful music. Cheerful music is made by happy go lucky shallow people
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rdtprog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Metal / Heavy / RPI / Symph Prog Team Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3105 |
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Rush have started to running out of ideas, the day they decided to jam in studios, and discover that they have good instincts to make music that is listenable, so they would take less time to make a album and less fun for us to listen. |
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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friso ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2007 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1968 |
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Singing the modern equivalent of doobie doobie doobie and expecting to make a philosophicial statement with impact.
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brainstormer ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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I guess Yes are just that then. And all the other positive hippies. |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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twosteves ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 2084 |
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Wow--what a prog guitar god---that is more of a shawl than a cape---someone else int the band did the cape thing.
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 12826 |
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Something else I've noticed that is that the more modern 'positive prog' often connects with religion ie Glass Hammer, The Flower Kings and Neal Morse are the closest to Yes in that respect. Anderson's spiritualism was a major part of Yes music although that expression was not overtly religious in the lyrics. Not sure what point I'm making but just a thought.
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rogerthat ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 7488 |
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I am not sure about Glass Hammer but both TFK and Neal Morse/Spocks Beard were also influenced by Kansas and that is where the religious bent probably comes from. Kansas is often left out in the discussion on 'happy'/'optimistic' prog.
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rogerthat ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 7488 |
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I don't think happy music by itself is necessarily shallow though I know that idea is frequently tossed about in Western art generally. But I too would find a near complete absence of pathos in the work of an artist rather strange and tough to take very seriously. It is hard to not find anything at all in the human condition that evokes grief or anger.
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