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HackettFan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2013 at 14:38
A series of very accessible commercial hooks strung together with irrelevant transitions into one long epic. I'm thinking of Nektar - Recycled. Recycled is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, but Journey to the Center of the Eye is an epic from the same group that manages to spare us that sort of commercial shlock masquerading as sophistication.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2013 at 20:17
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

A series of very accessible commercial hooks strung together with irrelevant transitions into one long epic. I'm thinking of Nektar - Recycled. Recycled is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, but Journey to the Center of the Eye is an epic from the same group that manages to spare us that sort of commercial shlock masquerading as sophistication.
 
You nailed this! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2013 at 20:20
^I do see what you guys are driving at, but i still love Recycled!
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2013 at 21:08
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I don't think happy music by itself is necessarily shallow though I know that idea is frequently tossed about in Western art generally.  But I too would find a near complete absence of pathos in the work of an artist rather strange and tough to take very seriously.  It is hard to not find anything at all in the human condition that evokes grief or anger.  

Yes, but those of us, like myself, who do feel extreme grief or anger at the human condition realizes
that staying there does nothing to change the situation.  In fact, it becomes "resisting evil with evil"
which we are told not to do (ok, by Christ), but resist evil with good" (prog).  Staying in my grief or
anger is physically damaging, and science proves that.  So, when all these people stay in negative
art, to me, it's not a sign of sophistication, it's like being anti-science.  That's a different type of
Pollyanna attitude.  


Edited by brainstormer - March 24 2013 at 21:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2013 at 23:56
The worst cliche in progressive metal is that screechy keyboard solo that always comes in following the extensive guitar solo right before it.  It takes it the step too far and it shows up in so many bands.  Jordan Rudess especially.  

Angry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metalmarsh89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 00:58
Originally posted by Earendil Earendil wrote:

The worst cliche in progressive metal is that screechy keyboard solo that always comes in following the extensive guitar solo right before it.  It takes it the step too far and it shows up in so many bands.  Jordan Rudess especially.  

Angry



 He did tone it down on the last album. In fact, it seems he's been cutting back on it since Systematic Chaos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 01:07
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Originally posted by Earendil Earendil wrote:

The worst cliche in progressive metal is that screechy keyboard solo that always comes in following the extensive guitar solo right before it.  It takes it the step too far and it shows up in so many bands.  Jordan Rudess especially.  

Angry



 He did tone it down on the last album. In fact, it seems he's been cutting back on it since Systematic Chaos.

I was really amazed by that album actually.  It's phenomenal.  Miles ahead of their last last few.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Garten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 03:41
Prog cliche?



How about over-analysis by its fans?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 09:52
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:


Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

A series of very accessible commercial hooks strung together with irrelevant transitions into one long epic. I'm thinking of Nektar - Recycled. Recycled is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, but Journey to the Center of the Eye is an epic from the same group that manages to spare us that sort of commercial shlock masquerading as sophistication.

 
You nailed this! Smile

Thanks
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

I do see what you guys are driving at, but i still love Recycled!

I know.    It's true. The cliche remains effective, much as I don't want to admit it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 10:19
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Prog cliche?



How about over-analysis by its fans?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 10:35
Grandiose third person lyrics contrasted with "more personal" first or second person lyrics. And You and I and Supper's Ready are two examples. You find this a lot, too, in Japanese Alt Rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2013 at 11:33
Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I don't think happy music by itself is necessarily shallow though I know that idea is frequently tossed about in Western art generally.  But I too would find a near complete absence of pathos in the work of an artist rather strange and tough to take very seriously.  It is hard to not find anything at all in the human condition that evokes grief or anger.  

Yes, but those of us, like myself, who do feel extreme grief or anger at the human condition realizes
that staying there does nothing to change the situation.  In fact, it becomes "resisting evil with evil"
which we are told not to do (ok, by Christ), but resist evil with good" (prog).  Staying in my grief or
anger is physically damaging, and science proves that.  So, when all these people stay in negative
art, to me, it's not a sign of sophistication, it's like being anti-science.  That's a different type of
Pollyanna attitude.  

Staying with, that is to say, suppressing and beating yourself down with anger is bad.  But venting it is good for yourself (maybe not for the neighbourhood LOL) and music is one way to.  I think an artist would one way or the other express his thoughts about subjects that disturb him.   But I don't disagree with your point; this sad/serious pose in itself has become a cliche.  It's as if anything that doesn't sound serious is inherently bad/pop whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progfan2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 09:51
I´d say a cliche in Prog are those unjustified, very intense coming from nowhere Instrumentals, just for the sake of making a Prog-sounding instrumental. Sounds fake. Prog is not meant to be Prog for sounding Prog, but for possessing certain qualities to it, like an intelligent songwriting. Starting a track with cheesy, funny sounding fast and changing tunes is not a characteristic Prog is proud about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 12:48
I like John Wetton's thoughts on the prog idiom:


"Everyone who wants to be progressive, in inverted comas, want to use mellotrons, Marshall amps and Rickenbacker basses, you know, it's all back to 1973, which is hardly progressive. So it's very much regressive. But it seems that progressive has become a generic term for a style of music which involves time changes, classical moods... "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 12:53
Well he hits the nail on the head imo. Just in that tiny quote. It perfectly explains the never ending debates about prog versus progressive right down to the t. 
From having been on the new suggestions team, I did tend to end up in a lot of those... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 13:19
Originally posted by Progfan2010 Progfan2010 wrote:

I´d say a cliche in Prog are those unjustified, very intense coming from nowhere Instrumentals, just for the sake of making a Prog-sounding instrumental. Sounds fake. Prog is not meant to be Prog for sounding Prog, but for possessing certain qualities to it, like an intelligent songwriting. Starting a track with cheesy, funny sounding fast and changing tunes is not a characteristic Prog is proud about.
... and that's where the word "pretentious" comes in. I'm very much aware of the allergies some people around here have to that word, and some would simply explain it as a critic's word for bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-... something bad ... mayhaps something they don't personally fancy. But if we put to use the definition of that word according to Merriam-Webster, it pretty much applies in the context Progfan2010 provided us with - to roughly put it, to adjust it to the context, meaning "unwarranted, uncalled-for, unjustified, excessive, focused on the skill rather than the musical essence".

Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 26 2013 at 13:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 13:48
Want Prog cliches? just listen to some Neal Morse Tongue (and I love most of his music, don't get me wrong).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 14:53
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I like John Wetton's thoughts on the prog idiom:


"Everyone who wants to be progressive, in inverted comas, want to use mellotrons, Marshall amps and Rickenbacker basses, you know, it's all back to 1973, which is hardly progressive. So it's very much regressive. But it seems that progressive has become a generic term for a style of music which involves time changes, classical moods... "

1973.  Yep.  I still act like I'm in high school sometimes.  Okay.  A lot of the time!   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicCabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 15:51
capes, Black holes, spoken word/stories, epic album covers, egos, brilliance, drugs, long pieces, member changes. 
A flower?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2013 at 17:01
More capes 


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