Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Prog clichés
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Prog clichés

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Rednight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 18 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 101
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog clichés
    Posted: March 19 2014 at 15:24
Originally posted by Bitterblogger

Originally posted by Rednight

1. The falling out of a key player (hah, hah) after a mushy gatefold LP.
2. The unceremonious sacking of his brilliant and enjoyable replacement
   after the following milestone album and backing tour.
3. The ditching of a long-time co-founder after a health scare.
4. Hiring a tribute band wannabe to replace him while still trying to   
   pass itself off as the original product.

   Wait a minute! I just described Yes!


Wait a minute--The Yes Album is "mushy"? How so?!

You've also described Journey, on #4 anyway, which they embraced to the extent that he was featured on a recent PBS pledge about how Journey "returned".
I was talking about 'Topographic Oceans.
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 16358
Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 14:02
The words "outside looking in" 
Back to Top
Bitterblogger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1563
Post Options Post Options   Quote Bitterblogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 13:53
Originally posted by Rednight

1. The falling out of a key player (hah, hah) after a mushy gatefold LP.
2. The unceremonious sacking of his brilliant and enjoyable replacement
   after the following milestone album and backing tour.
3. The ditching of a long-time co-founder after a health scare.
4. Hiring a tribute band wannabe to replace him while still trying to   
   pass itself off as the original product.

   Wait a minute! I just described Yes!


Wait a minute--The Yes Album is "mushy"? How so?!

You've also described Journey, on #4 anyway, which they embraced to the extent that he was featured on a recent PBS pledge about how Journey "returned".

Back to Top
Rednight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 18 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 101
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 12:42
1. The falling out of a key player (hah, hah) after a mushy gatefold LP.
2. The unceremonious sacking of his brilliant and enjoyable replacement
   after the following milestone album and backing tour.
3. The ditching of a long-time co-founder after a health scare.
4. Hiring a tribute band wannabe to replace him while still trying to   
   pass itself off as the original product.

   Wait a minute! I just described Yes!
Back to Top
Rednight View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 18 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 101
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 12:36
L.A. Times music critic calling prog bands "pretentious."
Back to Top
stegor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 692
Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 21:05
Originally posted by Xonty

There must be hundreds: complex time signatures, jazz sections, overuse of mellotrons, making songs longer for the sake of it, trying to hard to be experimental, playing fast loud sections (mainly from early King Crimson, but also Yes, ELP, etc.), using interesting instruments like the sitar just to sound somewhat varied, and so on.

Trying to think of the last ever truly progressive album and I'm struggling to get into the 90s so far Ermm I dont consider the post-rock stuff that new, or Anglagard/Spock's Beard/etc. Dream Theater's Metropolis comes close but there are still many cliches there... Possibly Marillion or late Genesis and Rush? 


I don't think it's possible to overuse a Mellotron. Or a Chamberlain or Novotron. I just never tire of that sound. There's something about it, regardless of what tapes are used, that excites the very stem of my brain.
Back to Top
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: Olympia, WA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2545
Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 12:09
Originally posted by WeepingElf

Originally posted by Stool Man

Originally posted by verslibre

A MiniMoog can't be a prog cliché because then the electric guitar would have to be a rock cliché — and we know that ain't never gonna happen!


"Guitar groups are on the way out" (1962 quote)


Which is one of the most famous mispredictions in history.  The quote is, AFAIK, from a Decca A&R man who rejected the Beatles in these words.


To take the story one step further, it may also be the reason Decca snapped up the unpolished and amateurish Rolling Stones so fast directly after Wink
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
Back to Top
Xonty View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 23 2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Quote Xonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 10:59
There must be hundreds: complex time signatures, jazz sections, overuse of mellotrons, making songs longer for the sake of it, trying to hard to be experimental, playing fast loud sections (mainly from early King Crimson, but also Yes, ELP, etc.), using interesting instruments like the sitar just to sound somewhat varied, and so on.

Trying to think of the last ever truly progressive album and I'm struggling to get into the 90s so far Ermm I dont consider the post-rock stuff that new, or Anglagard/Spock's Beard/etc. Dream Theater's Metropolis comes close but there are still many cliches there... Possibly Marillion or late Genesis and Rush? 
Back to Top
WeepingElf View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 42
Post Options Post Options   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 10:42
Originally posted by Nick Bailey

I don't know if any of you ever go on Cracked.com but this is a pretty funny article (in my opinion) that covers a lot of cliches.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-2359-progressive-rock/


Hilarious.


... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
Back to Top
Nick Bailey View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 01 2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Bailey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 14:51
I don't know if any of you ever go on Cracked.com but this is a pretty funny article (in my opinion) that covers a lot of cliches.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-2359-progressive-rock/
Back to Top
WeepingElf View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 42
Post Options Post Options   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 11:49
Originally posted by Stool Man

Originally posted by verslibre

A MiniMoog can't be a prog cliché because then the electric guitar would have to be a rock cliché — and we know that ain't never gonna happen!


"Guitar groups are on the way out" (1962 quote)


Which is one of the most famous mispredictions in history.  The quote is, AFAIK, from a Decca A&R man who rejected the Beatles in these words.

... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
Back to Top
Bitterblogger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1563
Post Options Post Options   Quote Bitterblogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 09:47
^You mean, you're in search of the un-lost chord? (sorry, couldn't resist . . . )
Back to Top
lazygecko View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: October 24 2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Post Options Post Options   Quote lazygecko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2013 at 09:17
Do you think there are token, overused chord progressions in prog just like in popular music? Either I haven't developed an ear for picking them out yet, or they simply don't bother me as they otherwise might do. I can hear recycled progressions in some bands across their albums, but I attribute that more to their individual sound and songwriting quirks rather than some genre-wide cliché.
Back to Top
Bitterblogger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1563
Post Options Post Options   Quote Bitterblogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2013 at 13:20
Disdain from most rock critics/little chance of Rock & Roll HOF induction.

Oh, and huge drum kits.
Back to Top
matty3198 View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2013
Location: Bath
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Post Options Post Options   Quote matty3198 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2013 at 16:51
Originally posted by WeepingElf

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

"Definition of rock journalism:  People who can't write, doing interviews with people who can't think, in order to prepare articles for people who can't read." - Frank Zappa


Zappa pretty much hit the nail on its head.

Face it: rock journalism is not about music.  It is about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll: sexual escapades of rock stars, drug problems of rock stars, and violence at concerts, from musicians smashing their guitars to riots in the audience.  And that's why rock journalists hate prog: it doesn't give them stories - the "boring old farts" syndrome.  Progressive rock musicians and fans are simply too disciplined - they must be in order to write, play and enjoy music of this kind of complexity ;)  Of course, that means that there would be enough to write about the music, but most rock journalists just don't really care about that.  A rock star ODing on heroin (preferably at age 27) gives them a story; a band doing a 20-minuter in sonata form doesn't.



I think you'll find critics are faddish creatures, always jumping to the next thing. I'm sure they probably did like prog at one point, until it went out of fashion.
Back to Top
Stool Man View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2067
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2013 at 12:34
Originally posted by verslibre

A MiniMoog can't be a prog cliché because then the electric guitar would have to be a rock cliché — and we know that ain't never gonna happen!


"Guitar groups are on the way out" (1962 quote)
rotten hound of the burnie crew
Back to Top
verslibre View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 01 2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1991
Post Options Post Options   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2013 at 16:01
A MiniMoog can't be a prog cliché because then the electric guitar would have to be a rock cliché — and we know that ain't never gonna happen!
Back to Top
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: Olympia, WA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2545
Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2013 at 15:14
Originally posted by Stromboil

I don't really agree with some people here who have posted the use of various instruments as a cliché. For example the minimoog has been used in practically every type of music imaginable, so I don't see how that can be a prog cliché. It's just an instrument that a lot of people like. It's like saying a cliché in Jazz is playing the saxophone, it just doesn't make sense. To me a musical cliché is more about what you play, not the particular instrument you are using. 

Labelling a Minimoog as a prog cliche is especially amusing considering subtractive synthesis instruments like the Minimoog, ARP 2600/Odyssey, Cat Octave, VCS3, etc are based on the principle that you can "synthesize" any sound imaginable from the square/triangle/ramp/sine oscillator starting point.  

A Minimoog doesn't sound like Wakeman/Emerson/Moraz/Wright unless you specifically set the controls that way Wink


Edited by The.Crimson.King - October 27 2013 at 15:15
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
Back to Top
Stromboil View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2013
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stromboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2013 at 17:24
I don't really agree with some people here who have posted the use of various instruments as a cliché. For example the minimoog has been used in practically every type of music imaginable, so I don't see how that can be a prog cliché. It's just an instrument that a lot of people like. It's like saying a cliché in Jazz is playing the saxophone, it just doesn't make sense. To me a musical cliché is more about what you play, not the particular instrument you are using. 
A good example of a musical cliché would be the use of the C am F G chord progression in pop music. I have a hard time coming up with a good example in prog though, maby because of the "anything goes" mentality that often is pretty strong in prog, I dunno.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5548
Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2013 at 08:39
 
Originally posted by Chozal

All technique and no feeling
...
 
I was just thinking that this would be more like jazz, or watching the old JP Rampal play the flute ... always made you wonder where the feeling went ...specially after hearing Ian Anderson!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.