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Have these bands been forgotten by most prog fans?

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Dean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Have these bands been forgotten by most prog fans?
    Posted: March 31 2013 at 18:14
Originally posted by Hercules

Originally posted by Dean

People cannot forget what they never knew. There is a reason why obscure bands are obscure and lesser known bands are lesser known.
 
Are you implying that these bands are lesser known and less good?
 
Because Barclay James Harvest, Focus, Renaissance, Strawbs and Mannfred Mann's Earth Band were all bigger than (say) Van de Graaf Generator and probably even King Crimson in terms of fans and record sales in the 70s. Uriah Heep also were massively bigger than either. They were not obscure then for sure.
I'm implying nothing, I'm saying these bands are lesser known because they are less well known, they are less well known because a lesser number of people know about them, a lesser number of people know about them now because less people heard them "back in the day".
 
Van der Graaf Generator where less well known than many bands in the 70s, they sold fewer albums and had a smaller fan base, they were less popular then than many bands and they are less popular now than many bands, but they were more well known than most of the bands in the OP's list and even if there are a couple of bands in the list that may have had a higher level of short term popularity, the level of popularity VdGG enjoyed lasted longer than all of them. And that's just how it works - the longer you are in the public eye then more people will get to know you. To most of the 1970s record-buying public the bands you listed were known for: Mockingbird, Silvia, Northern Lights, Part Of The Union and Blinded By The Light - a few of those could possibly name a second track by a couple of them, I doubt that many could name a third - in other words, they were bigger for a very short period and then forgotten.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 18:56


Nektar:  Great band.  Maybe the third best on this list.
Barclay James Harvest:  Never heard.
Triumvirat:  Another really good band.
Twelfth Night (from the 80's):  Never heard.
Mastermind (90's band):  Never heard.
Mannfred Mann's earth band:  Love 'em.
The Nice (one of the founders of prog imo): Can take or leave.
Procol Harum:  Never cared for them much
The Strawbs:  Hero & Heroine is very good.  Otherwise indifferent.
Banco (del mutuo soccorso)  Never really got into them.
Eloy:  Good.
Starcastle:  Very good group but too darn happy
Happy the Man:  Never heard.
Crack the Sky (more art rockish):  Never heard.
Focus:  Never did much for me.
Argent: Don't think of them as prog
Renaissance:  Second best group on list.
Gong:  Some days brilliant, some days not.
Supersister:  Never heard.
Clearlight (French band):  Pretty good instrumentals
Finch:  Never heard.
Ange:  I love French prog, but Ange seems just middle of the pack.
Rare Bird:  Never heard.
Captain Beyond:  Best group on the list by far.
Cathedral (US band that did 
Stained Glass Stories):  Never heard.
Atomic Rooster:  Never heard.
Colosseum:  Very very good.
Greenslade: Colosseum was better
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:02
And all of you who never heard Captain beyond need to find their first album ASAP, esp. the second side.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:23
Nektar - awesome esp their first 3 albums
Barclay James Harvest - i like some of their stuff
Triumvirat - great
Twelfth Night (from the 80's) - okay
Mastermind (90's band) - who?
Mannfred Mann's earth band - okay for a few songs
The Nice (one of the founders of prog imo) - essential
Procol Harum - essential to have a compilation
The Strawbs - okay
Banco (del mutuo soccorso) - great RPI
Eloy - brilliant - I even have a thread dedicated to them here
Starcastle - ok
Happy the Man = ok
Crack the Sky (more art rockish) - who?
Focus - essential
Argent - hold yr head!
Renaissance - awesome
Gong - terrific
Supersister - who?
Clearlight (French band) - ok
Finch - ok
Ange - good
Rare Bird - ok
Captain Beyond - good
Cathedral (US band that did Stained Glass Stories) - who?
Atomic Rooster - essential
Colosseum - one good album
Greenslade- good
Cast (90's band from Mexico) - who?
FM - who?
Just about any seventies Italian band - great overall
Just about any seventies French band - great
Heck just about any seventies band from any country other than England. - well they are all great

not forgotten just not well known by those outside of the prog community
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:25
Originally posted by Dean

People cannot forget what they never knew. There is a reason why obscure bands are obscure and lesser known bands are lesser known.



OK. Maybe neglected would be a better term. However, I kind of disagree here anyway. You would think that if someone was a real prog fan they would go searching stuff out and not just jump on whatever just happens to be thrown in front of them. You say how can they forget what they don't know but how do they even know of something in the first place. Prog isn't played on the radio. You have to look for it. But the internet(including many prog sites) is as responsible for just promoting the flavor of the week(only in the form of prog)as the radio is for all the non prog stuff.

All I had to do was look at the last ten reviews here. All stuff from the past ten years or so. I have noticed this. It wasn't like that ten years ago. But with the constant barrage of newer stuff the older stuff gets lost in the shuffle. That is my main point here. You either have to know about it(know of it)or go looking for it. Also, many of the responses here are very telling. Many of you aren't saying your age but I can only guess. For those fifty and older who don't know most of these bands shame on you for buying the last five Spock's Beard discs and not owning some of these that you missed the first time around. Yeah, I'm being preachy here. YOu got a problem with that? Wink

And for crying out loud stop saying "who?" about Mastermind. It's not like they aren't listed on progarchives. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=237

Instead of saying "who?" which I find rather insulting (not to mention the name of a rock band who only had a few prog moves here and there ;) )I think I a better response would be "never heard of them" or "not familiar."


Edited by Prog_Traveller - March 31 2013 at 19:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:31
Mastermind? I dont know every band in existence but now I can look em up. So dont get so pent up about someone not knowing an obscure band.


EDIT:
ah, they are from the 1990s... now I can see as that era rarely appeals to me. hardly any reviews either...., still i can download from itunes this and see what they are like. Cheers!

Mastermind Angels of the Apocalypse  album cover


Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - March 31 2013 at 19:38
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:42
Actually this is easier to get hold of so thatll do


listening now and I like the heavy use of synths. I actually think they are very good musicians. there ya go - another discovery!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:48
I'm 55, and I've heard and appreciate most of these bands.
With the amount of bands and music out there, is almost impossible to hear/know them all. Obviously some are well know, yes, genesis, Kc, Tull, etc, but a lot were/are not that lucky, a principle that applies not only to music, but to all forms of art.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 19:59
Nektar - Not discussed much
Barclay James Harvest - Ndm
Triumvirat - Not discussed hardly at all aside from being called an ELP clone
Twelfth Night (from the 80's) - I've heard of them but I don't recall a discussion involving them
Mastermind (90's band) - Not sure who they are exactly
Mannfred Mann's earth band - Other than "Blinded By The Light" few talk about them anymore
The Nice (one of the founders of prog imo) - Hugely influential to what became 'progressive rock' but not discussed
Procol Harum - Other than "Whiter Shade" few talk about them
The Strawbs - Probably only known these days for once having Wakeman
Banco (del mutuo soccorso) - How popular were they outside Italy? One of the more discussed Italian bands today
Eloy - Not sure how popular they ever were but I read a lot about them
Starcastle - Described as a Yes clone
Happy the Man - Described as an American Gentle Giant
Crack the Sky (more art rockish) - I'm vaguely familiar with them, don't hear much about them
Focus - AFAIK the most well known Dutch prog band
Argent - Not discussed much
Renaissance - I read a lot about them
Gong - Lots of people know who these guys are
Supersister - Not discussed much
Clearlight (French band) - I've never heard them and never hear about them
Finch - ditto 
Ange - Supposedly the most well known French prog band
Rare Bird - Not discussed much
Captain Beyond - Ndm
Cathedral (US band that did Stained Glass Stories) - Ndm
Atomic Rooster - I hear/read quite a bit about them
Colosseum - ditto
Greenslade - Not discussed much
Cast (90's band from Mexico) - Heard of them, haven't heard their music or hear much about them
FM - Got airplay in Canada but not sure how well they did elsewhere. Some discussion once in awhile 
"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything" - Thomas Edison
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 20:26
Really dig the Renaissance. Can't say anything about other acts on the OP's list.

There are so many bands out there, old and new. I don't think one would want to focus on all of them all the time. Some bands get to be more popular than others. It is what it is. I see no problem in that.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 31 2013 at 20:30
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 20:29

[Ange - Supposedly the most well known French prog band]


No, that would be Magma.  Ange would probably be number two though. Gong had some French members but also members from other countries so they can't really be considered purely French.

In fact I didn't put Magma on the list because they are too well known. Same thing with PFM. I should have put Grobschnitt on the list though. Some bands get through the cracks and there seems to be a secret word of mouth thing going on in PA where some obscure bands get discussed but others even if they are still pretty famous(ie Nektar)not so much.


Edited by Prog_Traveller - March 31 2013 at 20:29
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ginodi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 20:29
Since getting on this site I have made up for lost time and ordered quite a few CDs (over 40), and lots of them were Italian Prog from the seventies. My six-year old loves Banco. I just ordered one each from Ange and Osanna. 



Edited by ginodi - March 31 2013 at 20:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 20:33
Ok folks now for the mother ship list. Here is a similar list with many of the same bands from the first list but a bit more comprehensive. This one is strictly seventies(since it was initially intended for a local radio station who does an only seventies prog show once a year).  Have at it(I almost feel like I'm unleashing steak to a bunch of hungry sharks. ;) ). Many of these bands are pretty essential for the serious prog collector imo(your mileage may vary).



PFM (Premiata Forneria Marconi)
Banco (del mutuo soccorso)
Le Orme (these are considered the big three of Italian prog)
King Crimson (an obvious choice of course)
Gentle Giant (also rather obvious at least for those really into this stuff)
Hawkwind (well known space rock band)
Kraan (German band who were a bit in the jazz rock vein)
Can
Amon Duul II
Ash Ra Tempel (another German band and should be a virtual shoe in for Chuck's segment)
Eloy (The German Floyd)
The Strawbs
Nektar
Alan Parson's Project (maybe something from their first or Irobot)
Greenslade (overlooked band but fairly well known in prog circles)
England (no points for guessing what country these guys were from)
Flash (Yes offshoot band featuring Peter Banks)
Fruupp (similar to PG era Genesis but from Ireland)
Finch (instrumental symphonic from Netherlands)
Supersister
Focus (kind of obvious but just don't play hocus pocus since that's too obvious ;))
Kayak (another Dutch band)
Wigwam (Finnish band)
Magma (weird but great band and one of the most well known French prog bands of all time)
Ange (another French band but more in the Genesis/symphonic school of prog)
Clearlight
Gong
Van der Graaf Generator (one of my personal favorites-they could have been huge and were in Europe but never cracked the US much at all)
Chicago (I think some of their early stuff qualifies as prog but their later stuff seems to convince some people otherwise)
Kansas (ditto above but obviously were influenced by Yes, Genesis etc at least on their first five or so)
Happy the Man (one of the best US bands 70's prog bands)
Crack the Sky (also from the US and had some scattered success)
Fireballet (rather obscure US prog band that did a version of night on bald mountain)
Camel (a very important band in seventies prog-those who like mid seventies Genesis need to check them out)
Caravan (more of what is referred to as Canterbury-you guys opened the show last year with them which was very cool)
National Health (more jazzy but also in the Canterbury school)
Hatfield and the North (ditto above)
You already mentioned Renaissance and Soft Machine so I'll just add my approval (not that it matters much)
Kraftwerk (also kind of obvious but what the heck)
Tangerine Dream (ditto above-I'm sure Chuck will have them in his playlist)
Rush (Much of their mid to late seventies stuff was just as much prog as it was hard rock or metal)
FM (another Canadian prog band but far less known than Rush)
Harmonium (another Canadian band but I think they sang in French so they might not be appropriate)Far East Family Band (Kitaro's first band and often considered the Japanese Pink Floyd-might be hard to find though)
Ambrosia (Their early stuff before they went pop)
Journey (maybe some of the very early stuff before Steve Perry just to show people what this band were capable of)
Frank Zappa (Yes he does belong here since much of his stuff was very progressive especially in the late sixties and seventies)




Edited by Prog_Traveller - March 31 2013 at 20:34
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 20:42
There are many bands on that list that I didn't really know about, some others that I have heard about well enough but haven't listened to yet (though I expect to do so at some time in the future), and a few others which I do know and like a lot, such as Focus, Renaissance, and Banco.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 21:12
I'm 50, and 90 percent of the rock music i listen to and care about, prog or otherwise, is from the seventies-i have scores of lesser known bands from then that i truly admire. Wouldn't want it any other way.
        Triumvirat are my favorite band btw.

Edited by presdoug - March 31 2013 at 21:46
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Master of Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 23:01
I'm 17

Nektar Love 'em

Barclay James Harvest Like em
Triumvirat Not a big fan
Twelfth Night (from the 80's) Not a big fan
Mastermind (90's band) Never heard of
Mannfred Mann's earth band Like em
The Nice (one of the founders of prog imo) Like em
Procol Harum Like em, and seen them live
The Strawbs    Love em
Banco (del mutuo soccorso) Like em
Eloy Love em
Starcastle  Like em
Happy the Man Like em
Crack the Sky (more art rockish) Heard of, never listened to
Focus Love em
Argent  Heard of, never listened to
Renaissance  One of my favorites
Gong  One of my favorites
Supersister  Heard of, never listened to
Clearlight (French band)  Heard of, never listened to
Finch  Heard of, never listened to
Ange  One of my favorites
Rare Bird  Never heard of
Captain Beyond  Not a big fan
Cathedral (US band that did Stained Glass Stories)  Love em
Atomic Rooster  Not a big fan 
Colosseum  Heard of, never listened to
Greenslade  They're okay
Cast (90's band from Mexico)  Never heard of
FM  Never heard of
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Post Options Post Options   Quote infocat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 23:08
Looks like Mastermind has some of their albums on bandcamp as well.  I have, and like, the following:

Mastermind Volume Two &quot;Brainstorm&quot;
http://mastermind.bandcamp.com/album/mastermind-volume-two-brainstorm

Mastermind III Tragic Symphony
http://mastermind.bandcamp.com/album/mastermind-iii-tragic-symphony

Warning, while the music is generally quite good, the vocals are generally quite not.  So I personally most recommend this one:

Mastermind Excelsior!

All instrumental!  And much more in the jazz fusion mode than the other two I know.
However I wasn't able to find a free streaming version of that one.

Apparently later albums have some nice female vocals.  I've not heard them.

Frank Swarbrick
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"I know that there's no time; I know that there's no rhyme!" -- Van der Graaf Generator, 1972
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 23:45
I've seen Mastermind twice. They were at the very first Nearfest back in 1999. They were a key band in the nineties prog scene but then sort of went off most people's radar. I saw them at a bar near me in 2004 or so. A really nice bunch of guys too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2013 at 23:47
I'll be 58 in a few months....I've seen many of these bands, my favorite in the pile is probably Captain Beyond (I saw them backing up Alice Cooper, 28 July 1972!).  I worked on their attempted comeback in 2001, but it was not to be.  RIP Rhino and Lee Dorman.  

However, nearly all of these bands have been discussed regularly on PA, either for specific albums or for the talent of individual artists in the bands.  

Starcastle?  I was friends with 'em.  

Happy the Man?  Check 'em out.  I've always liked them.  

NebelN'est is another band that could be added to the list....French lads, really talented!  




Edited by cstack3 - March 31 2013 at 23:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2013 at 01:41
Nektar - Great Band - love them!
Barclay James Harvest - Made some nice songs!
Triumvirat - Cool Band, at least their eralier releases!
Twelfth Night (from the 80's) - I like!
Mastermind (90's band) - ??
Mannfred Mann's earth band - Yeah, very good, although not all albums!
The Nice (one of the founders of prog imo) - havenīt actually ever hear a song by them.
Procol Harum - Some good tunes, but I am not too familiar with them.
The Strawbs - ??
Banco (del mutuo soccorso) - Not a big fanof them but I enjoy some of their stuff!
Eloy - Love them!!
Starcastle - ??
Happy the Man - I only know and own Crafty Hands, which I kind of like!
Crack the Sky (more art rockish) - ??
Focus - Cool!
Argent - ??
Renaissance - OK
Gong - know some stuff but canīt really say much
Supersister - ??
Clearlight (French band) - ??
Finch - ??
Ange - Horrible, canīt stand them!
Rare Bird - ??
Captain Beyond - ??
Cathedral (US band that did Stained Glass Stories) - Not too bad!
Atomic Rooster -??
Colosseum -??
Greenslade - ??
Cast (90's band from Mexico) - ??
FM - ??
Just about any seventies Italian band
Just about any seventies French band
Heck just about any seventies band from any country other than England:
NEUSCHWANSTEIN!!!!! Their album Battlement is a masterpiece!!!!! One of my all time Top 5 albums.
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