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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29625
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Topic: Everything is prog? Posted: May 15 2013 at 01:48 |
If I like it is, otherwise, no.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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axeman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2008
Location: Michigan, US
Status: Offline
Points: 235
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Posted: May 14 2013 at 20:14 |
chopper wrote:
I must start a pie thread. |
I think that pondering "Everything is Pie" just might get me too hungry.
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-John
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13412
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Posted: May 09 2013 at 02:14 |
I think the relationship between hell and metal is the same as between hell and horror movies. If you watch a Romero movie you are not praising Satan as well as you don't by listening to Arcturus.
I don't see any hell in The Human Equation, just to say one album that I think is 100% prog-metal, even if it has folk and symphonic contaminations.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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ProgressiveMike
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Joined: December 21 2012
Location: ColoradoSprings
Status: Offline
Points: 44
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Posted: May 09 2013 at 00:37 |
Sorry, that was really mean. And quite irrelevant. But I'm not going to delete it. I'm just a little touchy on the whole "prog-metal" thing. I honestly can't seem to find any contemporary metal that I enjoy, and if I do I find some justification to classify it otherwise The Mars Volta for instance. Wonderful group. Heavy? Quite heavy at times. Metal? Get the hell out of my apartment.
Edited by ProgressiveMike - May 09 2013 at 00:38
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: May 09 2013 at 00:31 |
how very progressive of you.
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What?
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ProgressiveMike
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Joined: December 21 2012
Location: ColoradoSprings
Status: Offline
Points: 44
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 23:24 |
I would like to take this time to mention that even though I love Rush, I don't like metal, of any kind, progressive or otherwise, recorded anytime after the 70s. And Anathema f**king sucks.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12609
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 21:31 |
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Oh well, I consider Progressive rock as little more than just the name of the genre, and Prog rock as just the short name for Progressive. If we wanted to include only the bands that have progressed rock beyond what it was before they existed, there would be very few bands within the genre... and some of them wouldn't have the caracteristics we love so much about prog (I mean, at some point Punk and 80's synth pop would have been prog). Oh yeah, and if the name of the genre actually had to define literally the bands, then I guess there just couldn't be any Heavy Metal... I mean, what would that be? | I think you'd qualify with that helmet you're wearing in your avatar. | Cool!!! So if I put on my costume I can go and play whatever I want and it will be Metal!!! Regardless the fact that I have absolutley no idea how to play any instrument But what if I want to play Prog Metal? What modification would I need to do to my costume?
Edited by Dellinger - May 08 2013 at 21:53
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 20:05 |
silverpot wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
How can you tell if a peice of music has progressed.......from what point, or singularity are we postulating the origin from whence all music has progressed? and when is the turning point going to happen and the music starts to regress back towards the origin? .. |
Hm, not trying to be snotty, but wasn't Punk rather regressive? To these ears the Punk bands played and sang just as bad and out of tune as the early Stones. Only faster.
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That would also assume that you've got some amazingly gifted ears that can listen to, absorb, and correctly delegate ratings to music. I'm not a punk fan at all, but it does bother me when people take whole genres and dub them "regressive" because it doesn't suit their taste. I can understand 'prog' fans not liking punk (and many other genres), but to toss it aside and call it garbage is VERY elitist and ignorant in my opinion. "Prog rock" is a name. It's a word we use to categorize the music we all enjoy and love, but it's not an accurate description, as Dean also pointed out with heavy metal. It's just a name. Just like Greenland. It's a name, but not at all descriptive of what it titles.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 17995
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 17:28 |
moshkito wrote:
Just wearing different tshirts and pants! |
Joke's on you, I'm not wearing pants
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 16:59 |
M27Barney wrote:
How can you tell if a peice of music has progressed.......from what point, or singularity are we postulating the origin from whence all music has progressed? and when is the turning point going to happen and the music starts to regress back towards the origin? .. |
Hm, not trying to be snotty, but wasn't Punk rather regressive? To these ears the Punk bands played and sang just as bad and out of tune as the early Stones. Only faster.
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7760
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 14:30 |
richardh wrote:
or maybe trying to debunk the whole idea of the thread ...although I must admit I've now forgotten what that was | Yeah exactly. I think we ALL are guilty getting into long-winded discussions about the orgins and use of certain terms that may or may not have a universal relevance to describe something, in this case 'prog' or 'progressive.' personally I feel it may lead to nowhere, but DEAN clarified quite well. Anywaymy dear Richard, I plan not add to the madness. :)
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26227
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 14:20 |
or maybe trying to debunk the whole idea of the thread ...although I must admit I've now forgotten what that was
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7760
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 13:26 |
M27Barney wrote:
How can you tell if a peice of music has progressed.......from what point, or singularity are we postulating the origin from whence all music has progressed? and when is the turning point going to happen and the music starts to regress back towards the origin? Or is the progression simply another word for on-going time? If you locked Steven Wilson in a (soundproof) box with a funnel web spider, he is obviously neither dead nor alive and could well be preparing to finally create the symphonic progressive rock epic that is surely waiting to explode the myth that anything of such magnitude could be anything else but "Derivative"....... | Dude. Your over thinking it.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 13:23 |
How can you tell if a peice of music has progressed.......from what point, or singularity are we postulating the origin from whence all music has progressed? and when is the turning point going to happen and the music starts to regress back towards the origin? Or is the progression simply another word for on-going time?
If you locked Steven Wilson in a (soundproof) box with a funnel web spider, he is obviously neither dead nor alive and could well be preparing to finally create the symphonic progressive rock epic that is surely waiting to explode the myth that anything of such magnitude could be anything else but "Derivative".......
Edited by M27Barney - May 08 2013 at 13:24
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7760
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 13:19 |
METALLICACA!!! please note that this term is the intellectual property of 'DEAN.' lol
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 11:28 |
Dean wrote:
^ there are loads of possible reasons put forward for why metal is called metal, none of them are particularily convincing if you ask me. It's one of those things that "no one knows" and now we never will. The one Iike is that metal is simply harder and heavier than rock. |
And sometimes more shiny.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 10:47 |
^ there are loads of possible reasons put forward for why metal is called metal, none of them are particularily convincing if you ask me. It's one of those things that "no one knows" and now we never will. The one Iike is that metal is simply harder and heavier than rock.
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What?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 10:42 |
Dellinger wrote:
Oh yeah, and if the name of the genre actually had to define literally the bands, then I guess there just couldn't be any Heavy Metal... I mean, what would that be? |
I think the name heavy metal does capture the boundaries of the genre reasonably well. Heavy because it is pretty heavy (that is to say, loud and intense) and metal because the effect of distorted guitar riffs is a metallic sound. You take metal music from any era from the 70s onwards and it does meet both these criteria. Somebody who listens to extreme metal may not consider a Black Sabbath album heavy but that's a different story; vis a vis rock/blues, it is heavy.
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
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Posted: May 08 2013 at 10:29 |
Dellinger wrote:
Oh well, I consider Progressive rock as little more than just the name of the genre, and Prog rock as just the short name for Progressive. If we wanted to include only the bands that have progressed rock beyond what it was before they existed, there would be very few bands within the genre... and some of them wouldn't have the caracteristics we love so much about prog (I mean, at some point Punk and 80's synth pop would have been prog).
Oh yeah, and if the name of the genre actually had to define literally the bands, then I guess there just couldn't be any Heavy Metal... I mean, what would that be? |
I think you'd qualify with that helmet you're wearing in your avatar.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20491
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Posted: May 06 2013 at 23:30 |
Dean wrote:
*sigh*
There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.
And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.
Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.
Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.
Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.
Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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