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Another thread that could end up being a discussion about what is 'progressive music'. Anyway just thinking that 'jumping the shark' may have been essential for the future existence of prog. The media stopped taking an interest and that forced it back underground where true creativity flourishes. Music making should be for enjoyment not for money.
aye - I wholly endorse the last sentence - commerically viable music is not on the agenda for the average symphonic prog punter....
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
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Points: 4591
Posted: May 14 2013 at 20:09
humor4u1959 wrote:
Prog "jumped the shark" by 1980, if not a bit sooner than that. It cracks me up when someone says that prog is going strong or is alive and kicking. No it's not! These folks are delusional.
Sure, some bands are still flogging the proverbial dead horse, but it's not a popular style of music with the masses and never will be again. Yet, the old prog bands, as well as the newer ones, have a devout following. I won't debate that. But, you don't hear new prog on the radio now like you did in the 1970's.
And, they don't play huge venues either. The exception to this would be Yes as in last summer's tour of open amphitheaters. Procol Harum opened for them. What a joke! Everyone said they were so much better than Yes, but even my faves, Procol Harum, have dropped to being an opening act. Many years ago, King Crimson and Yes opened for Procol on the same bill! It's sad.
So, let's just be thankful that we'll always have the recorded material to enjoy. That's enough for me.
Ya, I had a chance to go to the Procol/Yes show in San Jose last August. They had $250 3rd row "photo-meet-and-greet tix" and at 1st I was excited then I learned the "photo-meet-and-greet" was with Yes not Procol so I passed. I saw Yes many times in the late 70's and the Union show so didn't really care to meet them but $250 to meet Gary Brooker, that would have been worth it!
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26171
Posted: May 14 2013 at 14:25
Another thread that could end up being a discussion about what is 'progressive music'. Anyway just thinking that 'jumping the shark' may have been essential for the future existence of prog. The media stopped taking an interest and that forced it back underground where true creativity flourishes. Music making should be for enjoyment not for money.
M27barney I severely object to your post regarding Mr.Wilson.
First, I submit that there are VERY few "whipper-snappers" listening to prog at all.
Secondly I find your underhanded remarks specifying that ones age has in anyway to do with ones awareness of prog instrumentation and techniques to be ill-advised and incorrect. It only serves as a suggestion to your own age, which I dare not comment on.
Thirdly, Steven Wilson is a fantastic artist and regarding him as "same old" is a discredit to your own character and a HUGE loss to your music library. Mr. Wilson has stated in at least one interview that his favorite albums were made in the 70s. The influence of the albums are obvious, and tastefully appreciated in his work. Just because I am a huge fan of the Prog Rock Caretaker and one of progs most successful perpetuators doesn't mean that I believe he is discovering brand new techniques or he is pioneering the use of certain instruments in the realm of rock and roll.
Furthermore, I am acutely aware and appreciative of the work Genesis did in the 70s. Anyone who isn't is likely not a member of this website so your complaint is ineffective, except to serve to piss me off. If you need to disparage Steven Wilson, please choose an appropriate thread.
Hmm, I think you mistook the cut-of-my-jib so to speak, the point of the joust was to take a singularly superlative contemporary CD...and make no mistake the latest Wilson effort is no less than "Genius" - and to speculate that a newcomer to progressive rock perhaps a thirteen year old (just an example of course) - will listen and be taken aback by Wilsons "Innovative" effort - However the person may be unaware of the wealth of progressive music which influenced Wilson.....And since I once stayed at Mr Wilson's house on an invite and when he was in Karma, I can say that he was always destined to become one of the movers-and-shakers in the progressive music scene......
I could have used Flower Kings, Banks of Eden, but I feel that the Wilson effort is far more feeling like Genesis 1972-75....
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5093
Posted: May 13 2013 at 16:09
richardh wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
Carl Palmer's 1973 rotating stainless steel drum kit was perceived by some as jumping the shark, I personally think it was cool as long as you were not a roadie
The problem was the weight of it ,on one occasion the stage they intended to play on couldn't take it and collapsed. Not sure if the gig was cancelled or not.
Bit of trivia - Ringo Starr owned it for a while although he sold it on. Not sure who to though.
I have read somewhere that some gigs had indeed to be cancelled because the stage could not cope with it, this being the main reason why he used it for a very short time and he quickly switched to a traditional (still very big) kit.
Joined: February 18 2004
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Points: 26171
Posted: May 13 2013 at 13:32
Gerinski wrote:
Carl Palmer's 1973 rotating stainless steel drum kit was perceived by some as jumping the shark, I personally think it was cool as long as you were not a roadie
Documentary bit
Full Toccata solo
The problem was the weight of it ,on one occasion the stage they intended to play on couldn't take it and collapsed. Not sure if the gig was cancelled or not.
Bit of trivia - Ringo Starr owned it for a while although he sold it on. Not sure who to though.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16165
Posted: May 13 2013 at 12:00
ProgressiveMike wrote:
... MOSTLY: Prog was destroyed by Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes.
...
Such a pointless rant ... totally insane and disrespectful of people's artistry and work.
Now you know why they will be remembered far longer for their work than you. You are sounding like a sad, bitter, old fart that didn't make it, and you have to point a finger somewhere except your butt!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: May 10 2013
Location: NJ, USA
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Points: 32
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:13
Cornelius wrote:
For me. Was when Genesis and Yes turned to chart success.... Instead of Artistic Integrity we got ABACAB and Owner Of A Lonely Fart.
Most big name Prog groups were doing it though around 80-81, To a degree...
Yet YES came back to the fold a bit with some tunes on KEYS & MAGIFICATION and Genesis did the same with some of CAS (an acquired taste for many) and "Driving The Last Spike" could be added in the argument.
Can you blame them? Playing a small arena to 2,500 geeky dudes like ourselves OR selling out a stadium of 30,000+ to a mix of people (including girls!!). As a band its a no-brainer.
When some of the prog bands did some shark jumping they possibly took on some new fans who discovered the earlier prog tunes. I recall when ABACAB was out I enjoyed it, but then my best bud played FOXTROT for me and I was sold.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5093
Posted: May 13 2013 at 03:42
Carl Palmer's 1973 rotating stainless steel drum kit was perceived by some as jumping the shark, I personally think it was cool as long as you were not a roadie
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2762
Posted: May 12 2013 at 02:25
Indeed, this was years ago. Given the style of SW's latest album, I think it's pretty clear he has changed his views considerably over the last few years. His views are now closer to mine, I think. He sees that progressive rock in general, even with decreased "contemporary" influence, has much more freedom than any "modern" pop style. Whereas before, he would have claimed to value hip hop more than modern symphonic and the like. I think he has discreetly changed his views, and has stopped trying so hard to be hip. He also doesn't like metal anymore.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26171
Posted: May 12 2013 at 01:41
I should point out that a lot of the Steven Wilson hate can be explained if you go to the Steven Wilson v Roine Stolt thread. M27 Barney is very much a Stolt fan and him and a number of Flower Kings fans had their feathers ruffled by comments made by Wilson on Stolt (albeit several years ago)
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When did Prog first "Jump the Shark"?
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richardh wrote:
