Prog-Does The Recording Year Matter? |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Topic: Prog-Does The Recording Year Matter? Posted: July 15 2013 at 21:55 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 14:59 | |
A few years ago I went into Tower Records and picked up the double CD "National Health Complete". This was before slimline jewel cases so it was a pretty big box. The cashier (named Beau) was clearly the most knowledgeable in the store and I'm pretty sure outside he ran his own record collectors business and almost always had a comment for any prog CD that I bought. He looked at this one and started laughing. I asked him what was so funny. He said something like, "A National Health complete? They only have like 2 albums anyway". Seem's PA isn't the only place this band doesn't get any respect
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Sean_96
Forum Newbie Joined: July 09 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 13:54 | |
Whilst the year it was made will not affect the purchase of an album for me, there is some examples where the date an album is released can be detrimental to the band.
The most notable example I can think of is the band 'National Health'. Their albums were released in 1977, '78 and '81. They are a Canterbury Scene band with a very similar sound to 'Hatfield and the North', who are at least in the prog rock community quite well known. But, I don't hear so much about them on 'Prog Archives' which is quite a shame. If they released their albums around '71-'75, I think in the prog rock community, they would be more well known.
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 13:18 | |
^ Wow...I always thought this was the original version of "In the Court of the Crimson King"...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16163 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 12:58 | |
Better version of this is ZELIG ... a German band, and it was the soundtrack of the German film of the same name that was ripped up badly later! And if you did not see the original, you missed the hilarious bit in the end!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 11:17 | |
I don't see how you can come up with that opinion but to each his own. "Oath" is just as progressive. Another note from James Lowe this morning, telling him of more the BS surrounding this album that I found on Wikipedia: Robert Pearson: I just wanted to touch base as
this morning I was alerted the the wikipedia note about yourrecent liner notes saying the band didn't record on Mass in F Minor at all: Both Mass in F Minor and Release of an Oath were released under the band's name, but because of their complexity were recorded by other musicians and not the band.[3] The 3 footnote is:
I can respect it though if you say you don't care any more about setting it straight as you already did that quite a bit in your interview with me. I'm just curious about these liner notes. It's funny, it seems like there is a faction of people out there that really want to discredit the Prunes completely as having anything to do with being able to play their instruments. James Lowe: I have always felt the Axelrod group would like to have
had the Mass and Kol Nidre to themselves without the bother of a queer
named band in the way. We (the original group) recorded the Mass in F
Minor ... period. The Kol Nidre album was an obvious cash-in on the
band's name and since we had all quit by that time it had no original
members playing on it. Period. These people seem to want to rewrite the
thing to their liking. Did we support the Mass album ... not really. We
didn't think it had merit because we couldn't play it on our own. We
needed horns, strings and singers. Maybe this was expected fare for
musicians but we were a GARAGE band, for chrissake. Pass the mustard.
(thank you for your interest) jAMES
Edited by brainstormer - July 15 2013 at 11:19 |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 09:58 | |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 09:11 | |
Most proggers give absolutely no thought to the two Electric Prunes albums in 1968, the ones
that they did in collaboration with David Axelrod. If prog is also about sound experimentation, the Prunes were probably one of the top 3 bands that advanced the sonic spectrum in rock music. |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: July 15 2013 at 03:02 | |
Not to mention that i won a BOX of beer (30 x 33cl of Carlsberg)
Because someone was THAT sure, "I Shot the Sheriff" from 461 OB, was an original Eric Clapton
One day young people may be of the impression Reggae was invented by Clapton and The Police
Quite a few people think "Cocaine" was a Clapton too. Edited by tamijo - July 15 2013 at 03:15 |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Posted: July 14 2013 at 17:35 | |
I feel exactly the same about the first 2 IQ albums
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7750 |
Posted: July 14 2013 at 16:14 | |
Well. A good example is IQ's TALES FROM THE LUSH ATTIC.
First recording in 1983 was plaqued by horrible sound mixing and production. Now...2013 TFTLA has been reissued and re-mixed in such a way where it represents IQ's true vision for the album. Suffice to say, I really do prefer the 2013 reissue. The sound quality and production far exceeds that of the original. This is a classic case where technology saves and restores a classic album. I am very thankful. :) |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7750 |
Posted: July 14 2013 at 16:05 | |
Nice. I feel the same way about IQ. Age can be irrelevant depending on how much you love something. ;) |
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7750 |
Posted: July 14 2013 at 16:03 | |
Uh oh. Best you had fun correcting him. |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: July 13 2013 at 19:27 | |
I can't say it matters a lot to me though if some one tells me about a good prog lp that I'm not familiar with from 1974 as opposed to a good one from 2003, I tend to want to hear the older one first.
But for me I think it's due to my age more than anything else.
As an example I love the last 2 IQ cd's as much as most of my older prog.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 13 2013 at 19:07 | |
^ Once, when Annie Lennox's Sweet Dreams came on a pub juke box, I did overhear the comment "That's ironic... some bird's covered Marylin Manson."
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What?
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maani
Special Collaborator Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: July 13 2013 at 19:03 | |
"1971 is only of interest when talking about Stairway to Heaven if someone claims that Rolf Harris's 1993 version was the first, or when someone (someone else hopefully) makes the claim that Uriah Heep's 'Come Away Melinda' was an original Heep song."
You mean, like people who think Guns'n'Roses wrote Knockin' on Heaven's Door....LOL.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 13 2013 at 12:31 | |
The recording/composition year is important if only to place it in context and in the right chronology. It is important to know that Beethoven wrote the 3rd Symphony after he'd written the 1st and 2nd not just for purposes of being accurate but to understand the development (go on, say it, say 'progression' ) in his music. Similarity it helps to know that Tchaikovsky wrote the 1812 some 60 years after the event it commemorates and that it was intended to be a more general purpose celebration piece than the name implies. (Curiously the first performance relied on 'electricity' to time the church bells and canon fire into the orchestral performance.) Context and Chronology. Knowing the context of both pieces (Beethoven wrote the 3rd, the [h]Eroica, in honour of Bonaparte before the events of 1812) helps us appreciate them, and their composers, a little better.
Specific dates only become important when the context needs the precise chronology to define it, 1971 is only of interest when talking about Stairway to Heaven if someone claims that Rolf Harris's 1993 version was the first, or when someone (someone else hopefully) makes the claim that Uriah Heep's 'Come Away Melinda' was an original Heep song. Knowing the date fits the tune into a chronology and that puts it into context. Recording date also becomes important when the artist decides to re-record the piece (Tangerine Dream, Eloy, Banco del Mutuo Soccorso (Darwin!), Mike Oldfield, The Enid, Rick Wakeman, etc), giving us two different views of the same work and a big stick to thump them with no doubt when the later version is far from being the definitive version. Edited by Dean - July 13 2013 at 19:59 |
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What?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16163 |
Posted: July 13 2013 at 11:21 | |
Honestly, I prefer to not give a darn about the date.
We don't sit here and listen to Beethoven because it was 1821, or Ravel, because it was 1921, or whatever. There might be a connection as to why the music is the way it is, but that is not as important as the music itself ... otherwise we would not be listening ... which is the most important part of it!
Again, I consider all of this stuff a natural extension of the growth of music history in the 20th century ... and to me there are no basics ... the only thing there is, is ... music ... that someone created a special moment in time that you and I listen to and love doing so. The only "basic" that was not there 100 years ago, was electricity, which has gone on to change music in ways that no one could ever had conceived of!
It would seem trivial, but not to sadistics (per Guy this is statistics and statesmen! hehehe!) who are not really listening to the music at all ... just to one piece they like that happened in 1972! And they compare the world to it. Look, that girl was nice on the cover, but there was more music, not to mention girls! Like saying the ones in that day were different than the ones a couple of years later ... maybe the t-shirt and hairdo ... but the rest?
We need to do better on our critical discussions! Edited by moshkito - July 13 2013 at 11:32 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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maani
Special Collaborator Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: July 10 2013 at 19:43 | |
Actually, from a historical point of view, I'm more interested in when a composition/album was WRITTEN, NOT so much when it was recorded. After all, even the "average" album was almost certainly written at least a year prior to its recording date (which may, by the way, be somewhat earlier than its RELEASE date...). But some compositions/albums may have been written even earlier than the recording and/or release date.
Again, strictly from a historian's point of view, the writing date is the most important. Peace. |
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7750 |
Posted: July 06 2013 at 19:07 | |
You can count me in. |
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