XTC

The attracting new visitors argument doesn't really float when we confine the additions to single artists or bands, for example we didn't see a marked influx of Metallicacaca, Ironing Maiden or Hendrix fans when those three "biggies" were added to Prog Related and there aren't a mass of Talking Heads fans marauding the forum dressed in over-sized suits. The people who visit here are Prog fans who, like all of us, listen to other music as well, perhaps they see Queen or Muse listed here and think, 'oh, that's curious', (or not), but I would say very few, if any, came here looking for Queen and found Caravan or Harmonium (speak up if you did). The people who like XTC and Prog are probably already here.

Edited by Dean - July 08 2013 at 16:04

^ you do know they were talking about questioning the addition of controversial bands, not the rejection of non-Prog bands I assume.

thellama73 wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: ^ It should be remembered that as far as fully fledged pedigree Prog goes: one bona fide Prog album is all that is required to have an artist included in our archive i.e Max has deemed that if the foregoing qualification is satisfied: all previous and subsequent albums are included irrespective of prog content. Like I said before, I ain't heard the 'Boingo' album but am advised that misgivings about any artists inclusion on PA is a direct slight on the integrity of the relevant sub genre team and is definitely NOT encouraged I have no wish to question the integrity of any admission team. I think they all do great work. At the same time, I think the policy of never questioning previous additions is misguided, and leads to frustration among the site's members. Consider the following situation, which happens with some regularity. Band X is clearly more progressive than Band Y. Band Y was admitted years ago, and yet Band X is denied admission. Naturally, the person who suggested Band X wants to know why. We are forbidden from saying "well, adding Band Y might have been a mistake" so we are forced to give the standard non-answer of "the presence of one band does not imply the inclusion of a similar band." From the perspective of the person submitting bands, this seems arbitrary and unfair. I hate to see any type of discussion that could potentially improve the site squashed on the grounds that somebody's feelings might be hurt. I understand that site policies are site policies, but that does not mean they can never be changed, nor that they should never be. Dissent is a key element in any organization, necessary to keep it grounded in common sense, so I like to have these conversations even if they ultimately lead nowhere.

ExittheLemming wrote: ^ It should be remembered that as far as fully fledged pedigree Prog goes: one bona fide Prog album is all that is required to have an artist included in our archive i.e Max has deemed that if the foregoing qualification is satisfied: all previous and subsequent albums are included irrespective of prog content. Like I said before, I ain't heard the 'Boingo' album but am advised that misgivings about any artists inclusion on PA is a direct slight on the integrity of the relevant sub genre team and is definitely NOT encouraged

I have no wish to question the integrity of any admission team. I think they all do great work. At the same time, I think the policy of never questioning previous additions is misguided, and leads to frustration among the site's members.

Consider the following situation, which happens with some regularity. Band X is clearly more progressive than Band Y. Band Y was admitted years ago, and yet Band X is denied admission. Naturally, the person who suggested Band X wants to know why. We are forbidden from saying "well, adding Band Y might have been a mistake" so we are forced to give the standard non-answer of "the presence of one band does not imply the inclusion of a similar band." From the perspective of the person submitting bands, this seems arbitrary and unfair.

I hate to see any type of discussion that could potentially improve the site squashed on the grounds that somebody's feelings might be hurt. I understand that site policies are site policies, but that does not mean they can never be changed, nor that they should never be. Dissent is a key element in any organization, necessary to keep it grounded in common sense, so I like to have these conversations even if they ultimately lead nowhere.

^ It should be remembered that as far as fully fledged pedigree Prog goes: one bona fide Prog album is all that is required to have an artist included in our archive i.e Max has deemed that if the foregoing qualification is satisfied: all previous and subsequent albums are included irrespective of prog content. Like I said before, I ain't heard the 'Boingo' album but am advised that misgivings about any artists inclusion on PA is a direct slight on the integrity of the relevant sub genre team and is definitely NOT encouraged

^ OK, I don't have an axe to grind about any team but the forum is the designated place to discuss and debate the merit or otherwise of artists that are included in the PA database (after all, we are precluded from doing same in any reviews as per the site guidelines) You are clearly a perceptive individual, but think through what you're saying here: if anyone questions the inclusion of any artist in any sub genre then that is a negative judgement on the respective genre team: so we shouldn't do it? we shouldn't use the forums to discuss the classification criteria employed by the site? we shouldn't strive to refine and improve the process employed to classify/define artists/bands? You are kidding right?

^ I don't know who the collabs are, and why would me questioning one inclusion in one sub genre constitute thinking that team are clueless about what they are doing?

^ I haven't heard the 1994 'Boingo' album and if that's predominantly Prog with pop elements then the following is a moot point:

BUT

I have heard some of their early 80's material and they sound like a Devo covers band impersonating Wall of Voodoo very unconvincingly.

Ain't there a danger that we're getting things round the wrong way? e.g. pop/rock bands with Prog ingredients are NOT the same as Prog bands with pop ingredients i.e. Crossover

thellama73 wrote: Wait, Oingo Boingo is here? When did that happen? Seriously, one of my favorite bands of all time, have all their albums, but not prog at all. Neither is XTC.

People have been throwing XTC into the ring at PA for what seems like forever. I adore the band hugely and have purchased at least 80% of their output but cannot see any place for them here. Similarly, I adore Talking Heads and Black Sabbath but have precisely zero idea why both are included in Prog Related. (I'm also a tad sceptical about NIN being in Crossover Prog, but you cant put the poo back in the puppy etc ) Maybe a litmus test of the health of genuine contemporary Prog is how often tangential artists are cited for inclusion on PA. (should repeated suggestions such as this make us feel bad?)