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Gooner View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2013 at 08:56
Here's 2 examples of many why XTC belongs here as "prog related":

(For the record, I like Oingo Boingo...but if they're here so should XTC as "prog related", IMHO)

Jason And The Argonauts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQIklhh-MuI

Deliver Us From The Elements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kwE_yUz5tY

Edited by Gooner - July 01 2013 at 10:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 21:01
Hey Gooner,
Feel your pain, amigo, feel your pain. I suggested XTC a couple months ago, considering them, like yourself, to be a "glaring omission," and it was like I’d wandered onto a Southern Baptist Convention site, with all the pulpit-pounding over why they should be excluded.
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Why do we keep getting these suggestions?

The fact that you “keep” getting them should tell you something.

The Church, Talking Heads and Oingo Boingo are on PA as Prog Related or Crossover Prog, and yet when anyone suggests putting XTC in Prog Related you’d think we’re suggesting performing no-anesthetic dental surgery on a tiger.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 00:58
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Hey Gooner,
Feel your pain, amigo, feel your pain. I suggested XTC a couple months ago, considering them, like yourself, to be a "glaring omission," and it was like I’d wandered onto a Southern Baptist Convention site, with all the pulpit-pounding over why they should be excluded.
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Why do we keep getting these suggestions?

The fact that you “keep” getting them should tell you something.

The Church, Talking Heads and Oingo Boingo are on PA as Prog Related or Crossover Prog, and yet when anyone suggests putting XTC in Prog Related you’d think we’re suggesting performing no-anesthetic dental surgery on a tiger.

I cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of others, I am afraid.

Personally, I would get rid of prog related altogether, and scrap most of the sub genres as well. This argument, it is fair to say, has been somewhat controversial, and has got me in trouble with a number of collabs. It is not down to me, ultimately m@x runs the site.

None of the above detracts from one simple truth. XTC are not prog, not even related to it. In fact, your tiger with toothache is closer, dear chap. Perhaps we should send him for eval?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 05:35
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Hey Gooner,
Feel your pain, amigo, feel your pain. I suggested XTC a couple months ago, considering them, like yourself, to be a "glaring omission," and it was like I’d wandered onto a Southern Baptist Convention site, with all the pulpit-pounding over why they should be excluded.
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Why do we keep getting these suggestions?

The fact that you “keep” getting them should tell you something.

The Church, Talking Heads and Oingo Boingo are on PA as Prog Related or Crossover Prog, and yet when anyone suggests putting XTC in Prog Related you’d think we’re suggesting performing no-anesthetic dental surgery on a tiger.

I cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of others, I am afraid.

Personally, I would get rid of prog related altogether, and scrap most of the sub genres as well. This argument, it is fair to say, has been somewhat controversial, and has got me in trouble with a number of collabs. It is not down to me, ultimately m@x runs the site.

None of the above detracts from one simple truth. XTC are not prog, not even related to it. In fact, your tiger with toothache is closer, dear chap. Perhaps we should send him for eval?

I have no idea why Talking Heads are here, didn't even know. Seems bizarre to me but what do I know? Have never heard the others so can't comment.

But even in Prog Related....XTC.....well i don't see it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 06:00
XTC are imho a remotely prog-related new wave outfit. Just like the Talking Heads, they belong to a twilight zone of bands and artists will be suggested and rejected every now and then until they are finally included, if they ever be.
Haven't they been included and deleted before, a long time ago?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 07:17
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Hey Gooner,
Feel your pain, amigo, feel your pain. I suggested XTC a couple months ago, considering them, like yourself, to be a "glaring omission," and it was like I’d wandered onto a Southern Baptist Convention site, with all the pulpit-pounding over why they should be excluded.
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Why do we keep getting these suggestions?

The fact that you “keep” getting them should tell you something.

The Church, Talking Heads and Oingo Boingo are on PA as Prog Related or Crossover Prog, and yet when anyone suggests putting XTC in Prog Related you’d think we’re suggesting performing no-anesthetic dental surgery on a tiger.
Your hyperbole-laden histrionics do you proud, if perhaps tending to paint an image not dissimilar to that which you are lambasting, though to be honest I don't see how a simple "No, they're not Prog" constitutes fire and brimstone evangelical sermonising. However, does not alter the fact we do not include band "Y" just because band "X" is here.
 
We could include every "clever" band that ever existed and rename ourselves the Quite Interesting Music Archives since then Prog Related would contain more bands and artists than all the other subgenres and categories put together, and if we go there people will still decry that their favourite band isn't listed for not being quite interestingly clever enough so expansionism would dictate that we rename ourselves Not Manufactured Pop Archives until such a day as Justin Bieber records a duet with Jon Anderson and we become another RYM clone.
 
But we do none of those things - we are selective - (picky if you like) - with the idea of keeping the Prog Related section to a representative size such that it does not dominate any other subgenre here... There is no empirical formula to this, or even any planned or stated intent - somewhere around 150 bands seems big enough (yeah, there are possibly some I would cull (an unknown and/or obscure band has no place in PR for example) and possibly some I would move to other subs and there are perhaps some bands that should perhaps be there and some that perhaps should not, it's not an exact science - it's like sorting your offspring (or family or friends) in order of preference, we can do it, it doesn't mean we should). There are some bands that a strong case could be made to include, (like The Stranglers, Magazine or Wire), but that still does not mean they can or will be included, infact since it is merely a representation it could even argued that if band "X" is here we don't need to add band "Y" (thinking specifically Megabreth vs Metalicacaca)
 
 


Edited by Dean - July 04 2013 at 07:19
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 07:48
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Your hyperbole-laden histrionics do you proud, if perhaps tending to paint an image not dissimilar to that which you are lambasting, though to be honest I don't see how a simple "No, they're not Prog" constitutes fire and brimstone evangelical sermonising. However, does not alter the fact we do not include band "Y" just because band "X" is here.
 

Uh, we already have band "Y" here, so why shouldn't we add band "X"? Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 08:08
1. I love XTC, I have every one of their albums and have been a fan for decades
2. I see no reason to include them in the archives of a site focused on progressive rock
3. I still love them anyway.
4. They are not a "glaring omission".  That implies that everyone but you is too stupid to realize that they haven't been added, and that's a mean thing to say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 08:44
Still, if I were King For A Day, I'd add them here. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 09:01
To be King for a day...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 10:18
...Fool For A Lifetime
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Belief is not Truth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 10:24
...Mayor of Simpleton
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 10:48
People have been throwing XTC into the ring at PA for what seems like forever. I adore the band hugely and have purchased at least 80% of their output but cannot see any place for them here. Similarly, I adore Talking Heads and Black Sabbath but have precisely zero idea why both are included in Prog Related. (I'm also a tad sceptical about NIN being in Crossover Prog, but you cant put the poo back in the puppy etc ) Maybe a litmus test of the health of genuine contemporary Prog is how often tangential artists are cited for inclusion on PA. (should repeated suggestions such as this make us feel bad?)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2013 at 21:54
The Smartest Monkeys?

You know what? Whatever. Guess it’ll have to be the old agree-to-disagree. Gooner and I (and others) think XTC would fit in here just fine, and I’ll go to my grave believing they do but in the grand scheme of things it’s not that important and it’s not my website anyway.
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

4. They are not a "glaring omission". That implies that everyone but you is too stupid to realize that they haven't been added, and that's a mean thing to say.

Speaking for myself, I didn’t mean to imply that anyone was stupid. It’s just a difference of opinion, nothing more, no meanness intended.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 07:55
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Wait, Oingo Boingo is here? When did that happen? Seriously, one of my favorite bands of all time, have all their albums, but not prog at all. Neither is XTC.
Nothing to be gained in complaining now since they'll not be removed, but as near as I can tell Oingo Boingo were added because
 
1) a collaborator wanted to write reviews of some CDs in his collection; and
2) an early version of the group (under a different name) was a somewhat clever multidisciplined 'troupe' back in the pre-MTV 70s, (mistakenly) seen as progressive just because they weren't mainstream.
 
The problem with #2 is that 99% of their recorded musical output post-dates their Hollywood hippy days.  This is somewhat akin to adding Starship on the reputation of Jefferson Airplane.  Frankly I could make a better case for Psychedelic Furs or Sniff n' the Tears.
 
<steps away briefly to see if they've already been added>...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 08:28
Actually, I believe it's their final studio album "Boingo" from 1994 that made OB's inclusion. I didn't listen and vote myself on this one, but some google's on this disc reveals associations thrown towards the likes of Beatles, Floyd's "Animals" and bands like Idiot Flesh by those who have given it a few spins. Others will have to argue for the merits of those associations, as these are opinions voiced by people outside of this site found on the net - or RYM to be precise.

Three collaborators with normally rather different points of view did give them an aye to be included, so it's not an inclusion based on a solitary point of view as such either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 09:12
^ I haven't heard the 1994 'Boingo' album and if that's predominantly Prog with pop elements then the following is a moot point:

BUT

I have heard some of their early 80's material and they sound like a Devo covers band impersonating Wall of Voodoo very unconvincingly.

Ain't there a danger that we're getting things round the wrong way? e.g. pop/rock bands with Prog ingredients are NOT the same as Prog bands with pop ingredients i.e. Crossover
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 09:24
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I haven't heard the 1994 'Boingo' album and if that's predominantly Prog with pop elements then the following is a moot point:

BUT

I have heard some of their early 80's material and they sound like a Devo covers band impersonating Wall of Voodoo very unconvincingly.

Ain't there a danger that we're getting things round the wrong way? e.g. pop/rock bands with Prog ingredients are NOT the same as Prog bands with pop ingredients i.e. Crossover



Only if you think that the current 5 collabs on that team are clueless about what they are doing ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 09:37
^ I don't know who the collabs are, and why would me questioning one inclusion in one sub genre constitute thinking that team are clueless about what they are doing?Stern Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2013 at 09:51
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I don't know who the collabs are, and why would me questioning one inclusion in one sub genre constitute thinking that team are clueless about what they are doing?Stern Smile


You forgot the winkey in that quote - it was am answer given half in jest.

The unjestful part of it is that this is an addition made by a team of collabs, where a majority have found the inclusion to be worthy. And also - "Ain't there a danger that we're getting things round the wrong way? e.g. pop/rock bands with Prog ingredients are NOT the same as Prog bands with pop ingredients i.e. Crossover" - it's kind of hard to not regard this phrase, placed in a paragraph of it's very own, as a negative judgment of that very team.

I'll leave this minor storm in a minuscule cup of water now, as far as I'm concerned there's nothing more to be gained by this particular debate.
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