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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
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Topic: 2 under-appreciated Bassists Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:19 |
Here are 2 bass players from 2 great bands, often over-looked here as they are only marginally Progressive. Just wondering what the 'masses' think of their bass playing skills ??
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GabrielGenesis
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:25 |
Wishbone Ash. No contest.
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Hercules
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:17 |
Martin Turner - he's one of the best.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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presdoug
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:54 |
Martin Turner-great technique coupled with real emotion in his playing.
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Memory Cube
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:59 |
Turner as well.
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Man With Hat
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Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 17:20 |
I guess Turner.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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dr wu23
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 19:37 |
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Mellotron Storm
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:20 |
dr wu23 wrote:
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me.... |
My thoughts as well, I never really noticed his bass playing on Wishbone Ash probably because I was more focused on the two lead guitarists. Cetera is excellent especially early on before they became more of a pop band. I know Tom has praised Cetera to me several times over the years.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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tszirmay
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Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:26 |
Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:48 |
I had a feeling Turner's bass would get the most lovin' around here. They are both quite impressive when they are in their element - creative, competent and versatile. Complex even. I guess I go for Cetera's playing more (I have heaps of Chicago LP's but only a couple from Wishbone). When I witnessed MT's W.A. at BB Kings on my recent vacation to NYC I knew I had been missing out on something. I do find them more at the 'rock' end of the scale, but there's proof that one need not play like Squire or Lee to be amazing. Thanks for voting everyone
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Tom Ozric
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Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:50 |
tszirmay wrote:
Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! |
Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:10 |
Mellotron Storm wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me.... |
My thoughts as well, I never really noticed his bass playing on Wishbone Ash probably because I was more focused on the two lead guitarists. Cetera is excellent especially early on before they became more of a pop band. I know Tom has praised Cetera to me several times over the years. |
Turner's playing style influenced Steve Harris without a doubt. I've not heard any folks name-drop Cetera as an influence - shame really - his performances throughout the first 7 (in particular numbers 5 & 7) Chicago albums are pretty awesome. Key tracks I'd recommend are
'Poem For The People'
'Mother'
'Goodbye'
'Something In This City Changes People'
'Devil's Sweet'
'Hanky Panky'
For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play, and I love the pairing of 'Warrior/Throw Down the Sword'. The live dbl LP 'Live Dates' features great playing all 'round. 'The Pilgrim' being my favourite, and 'Phoenix' is a cool, extended jam piece.
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Tom Ozric
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Joined: September 03 2005
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Points: 15916
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:22 |
dr wu23 wrote:
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me.... |
Cetera's stamina on those first 3 Chicago albums is amazing - he's on fire. I actually found his most technical accomplishments being on 5, 6 & 7. His bass on 'Street Player' is tasteful, even with the disco slant. Some of those later 70's M.O.R. albums from them feature some complex playing even though on the surface they sound smooth and accessible.
Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but.
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tszirmay
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:29 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! | Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !! |
That's the ONE! Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15916
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:56 |
tszirmay wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! | Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ?? If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !! |
That's the ONE! Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE |
There's The Rub - darn it, I had my chance to by this a few weeks back but got the Live Dates LP instead - I honestly thought it was from around 1979/80 (with that Cricket Ball cover) ?? Don't ask.....
Just read your (quality) review of the album - man I love your reviews.......anyway, I will be looking out for this one in the future. For now, I will be removing 'Le Porte Del Domani' from the turntable and plonking on 'Argus' !!
Edited by Tom Ozric - July 22 2013 at 13:31
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chopper
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 06:35 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play |
I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff.
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dr wu23
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 09:17 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me.... | Cetera's stamina on those first 3 Chicago albums is amazing - he's on fire. I actually found his most technical accomplishments being on 5, 6 & 7. His bass on 'Street Player' is tasteful, even with the disco slant. Some of those later 70's M.O.R. albums from them feature some complex playing even though on the surface they sound smooth and accessible.
Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but. |
I always felt that Chicago drifted into pop radio territory from 5 on so I didn't listen to those lp's very often...but there are some interesting tracks even on the later lp's.
Argus is my favorite Ash lp and if his bass is not up front that may be why many have ignored his playing. There are many solid bass players out there like Turner who just don't get mentioned for various reasons.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 13:28 |
chopper wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play |
I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff. |
You're right !! I went back and gave my Argus LP a spin and my remark of it being low was incorrect (well, not as up-front as I'd like...). I dunno what I was thinking. 'Time Was' is amazing, some great bass runs in there too. I picked these 2 bassists coz they're not spoken about often and they really go by under the radar. Turner loves his Gibson 'Thunderbird' bass !! Cetera loves his Fender Precision basses. He did have a Gibson SG bass around '72, and some nice wood-grain finished bass in the late-70's (don't know the make).
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presdoug
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Posted: July 22 2013 at 19:54 |
I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence.
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Tom Ozric
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Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15916
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Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:19 |
presdoug wrote:
I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence. |
He does indeed have a majestic stage prescence. I haven't heard him playing a Ricky - I have a Ricky, love the crunching tone.
I did read an article in Bass Player magazine on Cetera (one of the only features on him I am aware of) and he never played a Ricky. I do know he hardly ever picks up a bass these days (crooners aren't supposed to do that ). I honestly don't know what happened there..........and he is a bit of a spoil-sport by not allowing any official release of Chicago performances that feature him . Damn his ego..............
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