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Chris S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vinyl
    Posted: November 29 2013 at 16:51
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote smartpatrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2013 at 17:19
This is old news
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2013 at 17:37
Old news with an up to date news report. Get out of your bedroom, it's making you grumpyStern Smile
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2013 at 19:21
In my world, vinyl never left.......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2013 at 22:36
Originally posted by Tom Ozric

In my world, vinyl never left.......
 
+1.....we must live in the same world
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2013 at 00:56
^ You bet !!
.....and I only buy CD's if they're something really special (like Emehntehtt Re, Felicite Thosz etc.)
Vinyl all the way.

Edited by Tom Ozric - November 30 2013 at 00:57
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Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2013 at 02:08
I just bought a turntable yesterday - partly just because of the sheer curiosity of seeing if my dad's records sound just even better than what I have on the computer today (lot's of Gong and Laurie Anderson have been playing here today, as well as Godspeed's latest which I bought because it looks awesome and is a great album). The answer in my opinion is that it really doesn't matter that much. I do on the other hand see vynil's advantage as a visual think- to be able to look and see and feel is definitely fun. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazygecko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2013 at 05:53
The irony is that since vinyl has worse dynamic capabilities than digital audio, they cannot smash up the signal with compressors and limiters during the engraving to the format. Thus in today's loudness war vinyl releases usually end up sounding better and more dynamic than their digital counterparts, in spite of the medium not having any real inherent advantages.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2013 at 07:34
1/3rd just doesn't cut it, aesthetically. Whilst modern releases are highly selective titles and strictly limited, I am well aware that it means I miss out (by choice) on many, reputedly, amazing titles, but I have grown to be excited over LP's rather than CD's. Having said that ; I do simply drool over prog music, and I'm highly content with what is available as vinyl. If a title is only available as a CD (and I know it's a killer album) well then I bite the bullet and get it. In the end, I guess I spend less of my hard-earned......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2013 at 21:19
I, like Ozric, will buy vinyl waaaaaaaay before I think about a CD purchase. The CD comes out first usually, as long as I know the vinyl will follow I can wait, especially for prog releases.
I like the fact that more titles are being released on vinyl...my local used record store owner has a list from me of titles to buy if he sees them at auctions, estate sales or where ever he goes to buy blocks of LP's. I scratch his back and he mine....I also like for example, Haken's new one being released on vinyl.....I mean a band like Haken I would never think they would issue vinyl....but I am so glad they did, the finished product is brilliant!
 
@ lazygecko...I simply have ZERO desire to discuss the analog/digital debate..or even discuss it on this thread. The thread title says more than enough "Vinyl".
 
@ frippism......welcome to the darkside!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazygecko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 07:20
Sorry if you took offense, but that was something brought up in the article. And I was still talking specifically about vinyl, not magnetic tape or whatever. I totally get all the other reasons for why vinyl is popular: the physical product, the large artwork, being a less passive listening experience, etc. But when people start talking about sound quality I think it often gets confusing and leads to misunderstandings.
Terms like "richness" like mentioned in the article, or the more common "warmth", are pretty vague and can mean different things to different people, so I don't find them very useful. I just want to better understand why some people prefer vinyl music in terms of tangible audio quality. It's more about that than opening a can of worms on the larger analog/digital debate, so if you don't want to touch that subject with a ten foot pole then feel free to just ignore what I'm saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 11:42
Haven't bought any new vinyl in almost 25 years, but I did buy some used vinyl that people dumped back then since some of it is collectable...mostly prog and obscure things.
Only buy cd's these days but I still pull out some vinyl and play it now and then for those I don't have on cd.
We have had numerous discussions here about sound quality so I'm not going there  since it's completely subjective.
 
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Edited by dr wu23 - December 01 2013 at 11:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 12:18
Originally posted by lazygecko

Sorry if you took offense, but that was something brought up in the article. And I was still talking specifically about vinyl, not magnetic tape or whatever. I totally get all the other reasons for why vinyl is popular: the physical product, the large artwork, being a less passive listening experience, etc. But when people start talking about sound quality I think it often gets confusing and leads to misunderstandings.
Terms like "richness" like mentioned in the article, or the more common "warmth", are pretty vague and can mean different things to different people, so I don't find them very useful. I just want to better understand why some people prefer vinyl music in terms of tangible audio quality. It's more about that than opening a can of worms on the larger analog/digital debate, so if you don't want to touch that subject with a ten foot pole then feel free to just ignore what I'm saying.
 
No offense taken....sorry if I came off rough Big smile. All sound quality is subjective, regardless of format or media used....There are toooooo many variables to make a definitive arguement one way or the other or to set a baseline.
 
I have said before, its just like the basis of this website, 100% subjective, there are many reasons why people like a certain artist and why they do not.....We all hear different things and the debate will go on forever.
 
As I am sure you know there are tons of audio specific websites that discuss the topic, this site is not the place. Its a lot of good reading and you learn a lot regardless of your own opinion.
 
BTW....welcome to PA!


Edited by Catcher10 - December 01 2013 at 12:18
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 12:20
Originally posted by dr wu23

Haven't bought any new vinyl in almost 25 years, but I did buy some used vinyl that people dumped back then since some of it is collectable...mostly prog and obscure things.
Only buy cd's these days but I still pull out some vinyl and play it now and then for those I don't have on cd.
We have had numerous discussions here about sound quality so I'm not going there  since it's completely subjective.
 
Smile
 
That sounds like fun!!!
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 13:23
Originally posted by lazygecko

Sorry if you took offense, but that was something brought up in the article. And I was still talking specifically about vinyl, not magnetic tape or whatever. I totally get all the other reasons for why vinyl is popular: the physical product, the large artwork, being a less passive listening experience, etc. But when people start talking about sound quality I think it often gets confusing and leads to misunderstandings.
Terms like "richness" like mentioned in the article, or the more common "warmth", are pretty vague and can mean different things to different people, so I don't find them very useful. I just want to better understand why some people prefer vinyl music in terms of tangible audio quality. It's more about that than opening a can of worms on the larger analog/digital debate, so if you don't want to touch that subject with a ten foot pole then feel free to just ignore what I'm saying.
It's all down to taste. Vinyl does have a poorer performance, that is categorically undeniable, technically provable and subjectively demonstrable, yet people prefer it. People have grown tired from arguing with me on this point, but I'll not change my tune - and I like the sound of vinyl, I buy vinyl occasionally (the last was Kveikur by Sigur Rós), but I'm also an electronics engineer who has been interested in audio design for the past 40 years. The warmth is distortion, another word for it is "tone" - there are other more prosaic words for it but the bottom line is vinyl distorts the audio signal, but in a good way - the warmth is an increase in low-end harmonics - being harmonics they are harmonious with the original signal - they sound good, they add low end resonance to the music and that gives it its warm, sonorous tone. We know what makes audio sound good, it's not magic.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 21:14
Originally posted by Catcher10

Originally posted by dr wu23

Haven't bought any new vinyl in almost 25 years, but I did buy some used vinyl that people dumped back then since some of it is collectable...mostly prog and obscure things.
Only buy cd's these days but I still pull out some vinyl and play it now and then for those I don't have on cd.
We have had numerous discussions here about sound quality so I'm not going there  since it's completely subjective.
 
Smile
 
That sounds like fun!!!
Well ....in the very early days when cd's came out lots of people sold their used vinyl to various record stores and one could get some nice things cheap but the vinyl hounds soon snapped up all the good stuff. Now it's very very hard to find any obscure prog things at any record store ( at a decent price anyway...) assuming you can even find a decent record store.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2013 at 22:26
Well I think it is hard to find any good stuff used nowadays.....People with the collections I think are holding on to them rather than drop them off at a Goodwill store as a donation tax write off or get $0.50ea at a used record store. There is value in those collections now.
 
My local used record store guy has a list from me of stuff to buy if he sees it at an auction or estate sales/auctions. He recently came into about 100 7" reel to reel tapes pre-recorded albums from an estate sale.....He paid $100 for them all and sold about half already at $8-$12 each.....There were some rock albums in there he has gotten $15-20. He is even getting requests to find cassette tapes, what used to sell at GW for $0.25 are now going for $3-5 and more.
 
Its insane at what is going on with vintage used media right now......Hold on to your old stuff if you have it. 
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 00:28
What do they do in the vinyl versions of the many recent albums which last 70 or 80 minutes? does new vinyl have longer playing duration that the typical 55 or so minutes? do they have to release them as double LPs? or do they ommit tracks? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 00:44
Originally posted by Gerinski

What do they do in the vinyl versions of the many recent albums which last 70 or 80 minutes? does new vinyl have longer playing duration that the typical 55 or so minutes? do they have to release them as double LPs? or do they ommit tracks? 
 
Dbl LP issues. For example Porcupine Tree FoABP is a dbl LP and includes the Nil Recurring tracks. Marillion's Marbles is a dbl LP. All DT vinyl I have is 2-LP issues.
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 04:37
Originally posted by Catcher10

Originally posted by Gerinski

What do they do in the vinyl versions of the many recent albums which last 70 or 80 minutes? does new vinyl have longer playing duration that the typical 55 or so minutes? do they have to release them as double LPs? or do they ommit tracks?
Dbl LP issues. For example Porcupine Tree FoABP is a dbl LP and includes the Nil Recurring tracks. Marillion's Marbles is a dbl LP. All DT vinyl I have is 2-LP issues.
Thanks. Mmmm, I guess I'm a bit too spoiled by the digital media and I would feel lazy to get up every 20 min to flip the disc for all the music I listen. I still listen to some vinyl now and then (albums which I do not own in CD) but they are a very small minority of my overall listening.
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